// Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed - Page 4
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  1. #31

    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed

    I wonder why the Europeans buy so many of them then ? They have bought so many there is a gasoline glut there. I just spent two weeks in France and did not notice any offensive smells from the traffic other than the two stroke scooters.

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  3. #32

    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed

    I've heard from many people that Diesel is cheaper than gasoline in Europe for taxes or other reasons.

    Why buy a gasoline car that gets 20-30MPG, pay more per litre to fuel it when you can buy a diesel that gets 40-50MPG and costs less?

    Have you ever been to Asian cities like Manila?
    Diesel is used almost exclusively because it's cheaper but many folks wear resperator filter masks it is so bad.

  4. #33

    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed

    In the UK diesel fuel actually costs slightly more than gasoline, yet about 15 percent of all cars in the UK are diesel. That's 15 times higher than in the US, and the numbers are growing quickly. When you are paying 4-5 dollars for a gallon of gas, and all you have as entry level options are anemic gas 50-80 hp engines, you'ld want a diesel too, even if it costs a little more.

  5. #34

    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed

    Diesel fuel and engines are the future, even if we have hybrid powertrains. Why? Because shale oil and tar sands can be synthesized into kerosene and diesel fuel relatively easily. Making gasoline from them is much harder. And sour, heavy crude oil is currently trading at 7-15 dollars per barrel. Sour crude makes lousy gasoline, but it makes good diesel fuel and kerosene. Synthesizing fuel from coal using the Fischer Tropsch process is also alot easier if the end product is diesel; in more primitive diesel engines, coal dust slurry can even be burned directly in the engine.

  6. #35

    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed

    Here's a good "What if" for you guys.

    What if half of the country decided to jump headlong into the diesel fuel camp. The other half decided to jump headlong into the hybrid camp.

    Which side would YOU want to live in?

  7. #36

    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed

    As long as the diesel was CLEAN diesel with the appropriate catalysts and particle traps that you can use with modern clean diesel fuel, then there's no reason not to go with diesel. The big problem with current diesel technology is that the engines have to be set up to permit compatibility with the incredibly high sulpher diesel that's available in the US currently.

    Once you get rid of the sulpher, that alone makes nearly all of the stinky smell go away, and without sulpher, you can run a catalytic converter and particle trap that have service lives comparable to those used in gasoline engines. I've even read now that technology is improving for the use of EGR valves in diesels, so that they can (finally) begin to approach the level of cleanliness that gasoline engines have been able to manage.

  8. #37

    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed


    As an American living in Europe, I can tell my fellow Americans, you are really missing some nice motors.

    For whatever reason, most Americans won't buy a diesel, too bad for you.

    I drive a four year old 530d, powerful, fast, luxurious, quiet and fuel efficient. We completed a nice weekend trip today, covering 350 miles. I averaged 48.7 mpg at 75 mph with the airconditioning on.

    In The USA, you will never have the pleasure, instead, rattle around in you Chevy whatever, or cram into you Honda Civic and hope you don't get crushed by the next drunken redneck pickup truck driver.

    Also, as Americans, your only real choice over weak hybrids is a VW. The rest of the world can buy performance diesels like the bmw 535d with 0-60 in the 6 second range or extroadinary fuel economy in something like an Audi A2 with a real possibility of 70 mpg in the real world.

    Last words: FORGET FUEL CELLS. The are not relevant period. Chevy may not survive this foly.
    There are 10-20 good reasons to jail the fools who spend your research tax dollars on this rediculous pie-in-the-sky crap. A few are; The technology is 20 to 50 away from commercial viability and we need a solution NOW. It took 100 years to get the current delivery system in place for Petrol, imagine what it will take to do the same for Hydrogen Fuel cells. Some fuel cell technologies actually use gas to produce electricity, what the hell is the advantage!? The lost goes on and on, believe me.

    The short term answer is easy but it will pobably take the Japanese or Germans to get it right (sorry America, youdon't stand a chance).

    Build a quality car (not Ford/Chevy) with a small and efficient diesel that drives a generator. The three cylinder Audi A2 is a good candidate as it is teh most fuel efficient internal combustion engine commercially available. Drive the car with a 35 hp (peak 150 hp) electric motor and use Ultra capacitors, not batteries for power storage. Build in a range of 50 miles on batteries alone.

    Here's how it would work: The average driver travels less than 30 miles a day. After a day of driving simply pull into your garage/driveway on top of the induction coil in the ground, Your Capacitor pack will recharge in about 30 minutes, but this doesn't matter because you won't need the car until the next morning anyway. Do you understand the ramifications of this so far? You may never have to go to the gas station Again! No gas on your hands, no surly station attendants, no charging your credit card, ever again!?

    Well. probably not ever again. On weekends you may take a long journey. How do you do this with a 50 mile capacitor pack range? IN comes the three cylinder Audi diesel to charge the capacitors. After 50 miles or so, you may detect a very, very low humm. that is the Diesel genset running. Now you fill up on diesel every 900 miles or so.

    Also, if any of you know anything about electric motors you will know that a car driven by 150 hp motor will perform WAY better than a comparable car with 200 hp gas motor.

    This is all "off the shelf" technology, we just need someone with deep enough pockets to get smart and it aint going to be GM.

    Sorry folks, but forget your Prius and Civic hybrids, they are just weak gas cars boosted by electric motors. We need electric cars with range, as I described above.

    Best regards,

  9. #38

    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed

    Ultimately, one solution may not exist for the challange of a vanishing supply of our chief energy resource, and it's effect on our environment.

    That many people are interested in many different solutions may be a step in the right direction, and gives me hope.

    Perhaps, one day we will live in a world where these diverse solutions are implemented side-by-side: fuel cell, hybrid, diesel, perhaps even a biodiesel hybrid, and the options we have yet to consider. That, my friends, would be an exciting world.

  10. #39

    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed

    Some news from across the pond

    In the UK Petrol (gas) is on average 0.92 per litre, by my calculation that is about $7.50 per gallon. diesel is about the same price. My french friend tells me that petrol (gas) costs 1.05 Euros per litre, about $6 per gallon.

    3 years ago 12% of new car sales in the UK were diesel, in 2004 32% of the market was diesel. In the UK diesel cars are gaining respect as a true petrol alternative, with equivalent performance and much better fuel economy. In france (i am informed) that more than 50% of the market is diesel.

    Over here hybrids are a very rare sight, a recent review commented that whilst the economy in town was very good, on the open road cruising at 75mph economy was very poor, and a hybrid would only make sence for people who do not venture outside of the city.

    ... just as information!

  11. #40

    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed

    "I've even read now that technology is improving for the use of EGR valves in diesels, so that they can (finally) begin to approach the level of cleanliness that gasoline engines have been able to manage."

    Volkswagen is at the forefront in Clean Diesel Technology. Their Pump Duese TDI engine, introduced in the USA for the 2004 and up model years but used in Europe for years earlier, utilizes an advanced electronically controlled EGR system. The PD TDI engine is equipped with an Oxygen Sensor in the exhaust stream before the Catalytic Converter (yes, the TDI has a cat, too). The ECU computer (Engine Control Unit) recieves input from the Oxygen Sensor and based on this constantly updated input (millivolt fluctuations based on exhaust gas content) the ECU varies the amount of EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) to the intake manifold, and when needed will add EGR rather aggressively to keep NOx levels down, etc.

    Furthermore, Robert Bosch Corporation has under development a Fine Particulate Filtration System (FPFS) that according to reports mitigates Fine Particulate emissions to levels well below the upcoming air quality standards proposed for 2007 in Europe and USA (Tier II). The service life of the filtration elements in the system is expected to be approximately 120,000 - 150,000 km, and the system is expected to have minimal impact on performance.

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