Reality check- hybrids, fuel efficiency

OK...lets be claer. the Prius is NO flagship for reliability...Toyota is "updating " them by "fooling people into thinking they are getting a free oil change! Come on...Toyota is using Americans as test dummies. the reason the Big3 aren't knocking down the doors is because the know what it takes to make a reliable vehicle....and don't send out product that "leaves you stranded on the freeway (eg Prius). You'all need a wake-up call. Some talk earlier in this thread talks about reduction in the dependance of foreign oil....you want to do that...use E85 fuel. For every gallon of "fuel" you put in an E85 vehicle, only 0.15gal is gasoline....yes so for those that can do math, a 20 gallon SUV only uses 3 (YES...THREE) gallons of gasoline...and the rest (17 gallons of ethanol)...YES my friends this is true. go to e85fuel.com and see for yourself...OH and by the way, it reduces green house gas (like most don't even know what it is but know we want to reduce it), cost much less at the pump (generally $0.30-0.40/gallon) and although your "range" will go down, the lower price puts MONEY in your pocket!....and did I tell you it is 105 octane!!!!Talk about rocket fuel....put that in your tuners if you want a boost!!!!! If all else fails - YES it improves the US economy by keeping farmers and others busy....

TRUST ME ON THIS!!! GO TO THE E85FUEL.COM WEBSITE AND SEE FOR YOURSELF....DON'T BUY WHAT I'M TELLING YOU. ..IF its about saving US petroluem and reducing dependence......these HEVs don't hold a candle to the savings....and it does not cost YOU any more....DEMAND IT!!!

So, if

This idea of E85 sounds appealing....according to what few minutes I read at E85fuel.com, there are many vehicles out there that can burn this fuel....I'll look into more and comment back...

Personally, I won't rule out the possibility of ethanol or bio-diesel as part of a long term solution since some form of bio-fuel is probably the best sustainable, renewable, and PORTABLE fuel out there. Based on inputs from several (albeit possibly biased) sources, it isn't clear that:

1. there is sufficient unused biomass available on the planet to fully replace today's use of petro-chemical fuel.

2. clearly, it takes more energy to manufacture ethanol than you can get out of ethanol. This may be offset by use of 'alternative stationary energy' sources such as burning agricultural waste or other bio-waste but I'm a bit skeptical as to the economics of this and whether making ethanol would be the most efficient use of those 'alternate stationary energy' sources.

Coming from a Nebraska heritage, it is clearly heretical for me to say such a thing but I'm a bit skeptical of some of the proponents of ethanol (including NEVC) as they stand to gain a lot from pork barrel ethanol programs.

Even if use of bio-fuel is viable, it is clearly harder to produce (and thus more expensive without artificial subsidies) than petro-chemicals. There are also likely to be emissions issues surrounding the generation of ethanol (ever been near a beer brewery?). Therefore means of using even bio-fuel more efficiently (like hybrid engines) is still essential to reduce the amount of it that we really need.

While I'll support any thinking E85 users, I'm happy to continue to support pushing electric technology into automobiles since that clearly is a win regardless of the fuel used.

Sure the first few generations will have a few infant mortality problems - where's your sense of pioneering adventure? I'll refrain from calling you a chicken :-). Besides, I've felt the kind of performance that an electric drive CAN offer (not that any current hybrids DO) and I can assure you it's a guilt-free kick like few pure ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) cars can deliver!

OK...so we have established the fact that E85 is good....now, about the generation of it - from an energy standpoint it is worth more than you put in it-check it out with some data - but for arguments sake, let's say what goes in = what comes out...w
-What do you say to putting more farmers to work? -What do you say about weining the easterners off our oil addition (even if it is partially for now)? -What do you say about 40-80% green house reduction?...oh and by the way, did you know Brazil is way into ethanol - and in fact they SELL the gasoline they don't need!

Dave, I recommend you go back and check your math. If what goes in = what comes out, then the ethanol is just a wasted process. ie, if it takes a gallon of gasoline to produce a gallon of ethanol, why not just burn the gasoline in the first place?

If you're interested in farmer welfare (I'm not), I'd rather pay the farmers to leave their fields fallow than waste growing resources that don't produce anything useful.

Your greenhouse gas reduction doesn't take into account the burning of 1 gallon of gas that it takes to generate 1 gallon of ethanol. In this case, you're actually creating 40% to 80% MORE greenhouse gas.

Sustainability can only come from ethanol if you can generate the ethanol using some energy source that you can't use any other way.

This is why I see bio-diesel as having more promise than ethanol since the processing requirements are much less.

I hope this is making sense to you.

UH em.....but the facts differ in that you get 70% more out of the corn...but hey...details...as long as I'm not in a hybrid. I wish the EV1 would come back - in the interim I'll make myself feel better getting back to my Z06.

BTU International and Boston University Expand Relationship with Fuel-Cell Joint Development Program
Wednesday November 16, 4:30 pm ET
BTU International and Boston University to work on improving manufacturing processes for Solid Oxide Fuel Cells (SOFC)


NORTH BILLERICA, Mass.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Nov. 16, 2005--BTU International, Inc. (Nasdaq NM: BTUI - News), a leading supplier of advanced thermal processing equipment for the electronics manufacturing and energy generation markets, today announced the signing of a license and joint development agreement with Boston University, focused on improving processes used to manufacture solid oxide fuel cells (SOFC). The technology is applicable to both high-temperature and intermediate-temperature material systems. The development program will be conducted in BU's Manufacturing Engineering Department by Professors, Uday Pal and Srikanth Gopalan.
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"The insight and knowledge regarding SOFC material systems to be contributed by BU is significant," said Paul J. van der Wansem, chairman and chief executive officer of BTU International. "Combining this with BTU's extensive experience in thermal processing applications will allow us to develop a unique and important body of knowledge that will be used for the cost-effective manufacturing of solid oxide fuel cells."

"BTU and BU have had a productive relationship for several years," said Donald A. Seccombe, Jr., director of research of BTU International. "We are expecting that this joint development will allow us to address topics--such as one-step co-firing, lower sintering temperatures and faster binder removal--that have an impact on planar SOFC manufacturing costs."

"We chose to partner with BTU on this program because of their significant knowledge in thermal processing technology and integrated manufacturing systems," said Dr. Uday Pal, of BU. "BTU provides invaluable applications knowledge and real world experience which has been instrumental in the success of our program to date."

My Jetta always gets 47MPG on the freeway at speed. 65-75MPH (speed limit)+5 over typ. Got 32 on the way back however, pulling a 1500# boat, at the same speed, sometimes using 20PSI to maintain this.

A diesel is better than any gas motor. It does not have (and dosn't require) a throttle plate, which in it's absence does not pull any vaccuum at idle, or part throttle. Near idle is what hybrids do whilst just charging batteries, with any engine that can also move the car efficently on it's own, (larger than necessary to just charge the batteries). Diesels get 25% better milage than their same tech gas counterparts.
I think a diesel hybrid is a no brainer, unless you are just trying to impress. Diesels give off the impression of dirty.

Regards
CB

I have owned a 00' Honda Insight and got a average of 75.5 mpg .
I got a chance to drive a Ferrari 308 GTSC and noticed it taught u how to drive ?U had to drive it very aggressively and hard or,else it bucked u.
The Honda Insight doesn't buck u in matter of fact it changes ur driving habits like the Ferrrari but,its just the opposite.
I have noticed if u drive a Honda Insight like a drag racer for example ur mileage will go down and u will cuss at the end .
Just like a Ferrari in a way if u lug the gears in the slightest she will beat u up.
I think the Honda Insight and the Ferrari 308 r cars that r a rarity .Even though they r very much go to extremes .I give them a bow .
So if u wanna drive one I would suggest a Honda Insight it's cheaper ,lol but, in a extreme it does the same it forces u to drive the car like it wants to be driven.Very rare in today's cars.

I read all the threads to date( exhausting in its own right), but no where do I see mentioned the feasiblity of a turbocharged Bio-Diesel/Hybrid combination. Would this meet everyone's concerns regarding high mpg, low emissions and longevity? I am just now entering the fray(my work commute is 100miles roundtrip) and am researching replacement wheels for my 20mpg truck. There is no mass transit or bus service and property values closer to work are out of my affordability range. I drive 95 % highway(70mph limit) and am trying to find the most logical/economical/practical way to accomplish this. All these threads on hybrids are an excellent educational tool for me.

One related question to some of the driving techniques that many have mentioned: Are these mpg's that are being posted attained with religious use of the cruise control, or does cruise have a negligent effect on overall economy?

Thanks for allowing me to post my Questions

OMG

yoru wierd

When I first saw the lead in I thought I would see some straight dope on hybrid milage. Sadly, I did not. I have no problem with hybrids or the people who drive them. I just haven't seen one that I wish to own - especialy at the price.

Back to the meat of the subject - milage. Most independant tests show that the improvement isn't much. Consumer Reports, which accepts no advertising from anyone, say most hybrids are in the range of 3 to 5 MPG better than comparable gas only models, and to get that you have to be in city driving. They are no better at all at highway speed.

I know, every little bit helps, and I hope something better becomes available soon.

Dale,

Everyone I know who has a hybrid gets significantly better mileage than the equivalent pure ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) car. I'm still scratching my head about Consumer Reports. All I can figure is that they left the parking brake on while doing their mpg tests. They did, retract their report but the retraction still left significantly less mileage improvement than I've seen. I haven't seen any other independent reports.

About the only thing I can see bad about hybrids is that today, they cost more than their pure ICE counterparts. This, however, seems to be mostly because of their popularity. Since Toyota can't seem to keep Prius's on the lot, why would you expect them to reduce the price?

The payback of a hybrid option is still a lot sooner than the payback of an enhanced stereo, a bigger engine, mag wheels, or a navigation system :-)

Jeff B,

Don't know if you got your answers regarding the most economical / practical way to accomplish better travel to work.

I face a similar problem, driving 40 miles to work each day, mostly highway (60mph). I've heard from two different Honda dealers, two different versions on whether I will acheive fuel efficiency in the Civic Hybrid. Having read the blog (from the start) I'm a bit clearer, but would love to hear more about whether I will acheive the stated economy.

One dealer said that I had to be doing lots of stop / start driving to get the efficiency from the braking, and lots of low speed driving to get the efficiency from the electric rather than the petrol engine.

It's getting too hard to decide, lol.

Anyone with any suggestions, please let me know.

Hack again?!

Hack again?!

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fuel efficiency survey (please take, it's for my bioethics class!)
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/3TXQLYL

just charging batteries, with any engine that can also move the car efficently on it's own, (larger than necessary to just charge the batteries). Diesels get 25% better milage than their same tech gas counterparts.Tech Expo

i wanted proof if the cars are more feul efficant

This is really interesting theme, thanks