Comments on: Where Are the High-MPG Small Hybrids?

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Mon, 19 Jul 2010 05:58:00 +0000

“Seems to me the oil companies are STILL in control of the auto manufacturers…” – Capt Wendell Brunk

You got that right! I heard of a man who invented a car that ran on water… yes water. Not long after he was dead… coincidence? I think not.

Check out this link:
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/351903_needle20.html
It is about a contest the Shell oil company put on in 1973. The winner made a 1959 Opel T-1 get 376.59 mpg. This is in the 70′s. Who do you think would loose out on this? Nearly 40 years later, and the best mpg you can get with new hybrids is in 50′s… something seems wrong here!?

About 6 months ago, I read about a new car that was coming out that got over 300 mpg. I have not heard a word about it since. I forgot what company that came up with it. Doing some google search’s brought up no results about it (only a weird/futuristic looking car that may be coming out soon.. I doubt that will ever come out either). It was a normal looking car, that was going to cost around 20k.

What a sad corrupt, greedy world we live in!

By: Aardvark

Aardvark — Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:58:43 +0000

I still have my 2000 Honda Insight and there is no vehicle now being sold that can compare in mileage. This seems to always been the trend. I had a 1988 Honda CRX HF that could easily get 48MPG. Until the Insight came along, there were no cars on the market that could beat it. So I am not surprised that the 2000 Insight is the benchmark at this point. It will probably be another few years before another “breakthrough” occurs such that an affordable car comes out that can beat my Insight’s MPG rating.

By: sean t

sean t — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 21:51:30 +0000

100 MPG? I heard the VW Up Lite achieved 2.44 l/100km, which is pretty close to 100MPG, and it's a 4 seater. It's a hybrid car w/ turbo charged diesel and electric motors.

Toyota plans to have hybrids for EVERY model by 2020. Not sure if they can deliver . . .

By: Shines

Shines — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 20:41:41 +0000

A few thoughts:
Ford, Toyota and Honda make full hybrids that average over 30 mpg and are still safe and comfortable.
The oil companies just sell oil cheaply - as long as they do most folks are going to buy conventional vehicles.
It is hard to make a small light vehicle for the US market with all the safety and anti-polution requirements.
Hybridization is expensive; that and the relatively low cost of fuel will keep hybrids from dominating in the near term.
Better battery technology, Plug in hybrids and EVs will accelerate the shift away from conventional engines and foreign oil.

By: Mr.Bear

Mr.Bear — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:13:11 +0000

I don’t buy Jack Hollis’s line, “We really still feel (hybrids) fit into the Toyota lineup better than the Scion lineup, from a pricing structure”.

The Toyota Yaris appears to be the base the FT-CH is built upon.

The Toyota Yaris starts at $14.3k.
The Scion xD starts at $15.5k.
The Scion xB starts at $16.5k.
The Scion tC starts at $17.5k.

Who’s pricing structure are we talking about: the consumer’s or Toyota’s?

And while I’m at it. The FT-CH either needs a new name or a pronounceable acronym. FT-CH is too hard to remember and too many letters to say individually. Maybe we should start calling it the “Fat-Itch” until they change it.

By: Samie

Samie — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:20:24 +0000

Does any of this matter? If we progress towards electric vehicles it does not matter.

Clearly profit margins come from trucks (quad-cabs) w/ diesel engines, SUV's with huge V8's, and luxury sedans. Yes it is possible for small sedans to get 75-100 mpgs w/hybrid tec. and standard size trucks to have small block diesel engines but that goes against the conventional business as usually concept. As long as we think in terms of petroleum or any other liquid fuel this problem arises.

Also an interesting question, if you can have a niche market for a crappy Scion why not a 2- door or 4-door hybrid at 15-17k that gets 80mpgs???

Gasoline tax is political suicide and lobbying to punch new holes in CAFE standards as is being done now only worsens the problem.... At some point consumers will be forced to pay $5.00 a gallon again or future generations will have to pay up for subsidizing oil along with military protect, & problems with propping up aristocrats, dictators and people who use hate and fear to their advantage.

By: Phillip U.

Phillip U. — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:19:02 +0000

Let’s not forget that at least here in the U.S. small cars aren’t as popular as they are globally. So combine the fact that they’re low to no margin with low marketability and you’ve got a non-starter.

By: Ole

Ole — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:19:31 +0000

Small cars are less profitable than larger cars and trucks. Even efficient producers such as Toyota earn far more on selling a Lexus than a Corolla, while less efficient producers such as GM generally lose money on each small car they sell. The only hybrid producer that claims to make a profit on hybrids is Toyota, and many analysts suggest that this is only because of some creative accounting. With this possible exception of Toyota, every other hybrid producer in the world is making hybrids for public relations purposes, because they lose money on each one they sell. So combine unprofitable small cars with unprofitable hybrid technology and you get big losses, which is something all the world’s automakers are currently trying to avoid due to the financial crisis.

By: simon@syd

simon@syd — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 09:07:32 +0000

I think there are 2 possibilities:

1) batteries, adding weight, aren't ideal to be adding to very small cars - thus hybrid doesnt suit small cars

2) Manufacturer's dont want to canibalise their own hybrid sales. Prius sales would surely be crippled by a (cheaper) corolla hybrid. in australia they've just launched the camry hybrid - it had to be managed carefully in terms of its features, so that the price was bought up to nearly the same as that of the Prius.

And petrol is so cheap now, anyhow.

By: ex-EV1 driver

ex-EV1 driver — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 06:12:57 +0000

Personally, I’m into alternative energy vehicles because I don’t want to be stuck in miniature crackerboxes. I”m 6’4″, 220 lbs and want by back to last for a long time. I need full-sized cars so my preference is to replace oil with an alternative, not just dumb my life down to not need as much oil. Its going to run out eventually so why not just admit it and get past it now.
As far as 100 mpg cars, I drive a car every day that uses no oil at all. I won’t let anyone near my car with that smelly, explosive, staining junk. It gets infinite mpg. I drive about 20,000 miles per year with it. There’s no reason that most cars, big and small can’t be the same.
All major car manufacturers (Ford, GM, Chrysler, Nissan, Honda, Toyota) did make similar cars that got infinite mpg in the 1990s. They just chose to crush them all instead of continuing production.