Ford Fusion Hybrid
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City fuel economy for the 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid almost doubles the city efficiency of the non-hybrid Fusion.
The Toyota Prius and other hybrids are great for eco-geeks who hold fuel efficiency, low emissions and high-tech auto technology as sacrosanct—and all other car features as sacrifice. But drivers looking for a smooth, comfortable ride—with a modicum of style and performance—might as well forget hybrids. So goes the opinion of many auto journalists who ding hybrids for lackluster driving characteristics, squishy brakes, and clunky transitions between gas and electric power. But that was before Ford introduced the 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid, a family sedan that offers 41 mpg in the city—and more importantly, some fun behind the wheel.
Compare the Fusion!
If you're thinking about buying a Ford Fusion Hybrid, you might also consider a Toyota Camry Hybrid or a Nissan Altima Hybrid. Compare these vehicles.
USA Today emphatically stated, “The 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid is the best gasoline-electric hybrid yet.” Cars.com said, “Fusion Hybrid is a significant step forward for the technology, particularly for family sedans.” And Car and Driver said the Ford Fusion Hybrid “wipes the floor with the Toyota Camry Hybrid.” Comparisons with the Toyota Camry Hybrid and Nissan Altima Hybrid (only available in eight states) make sense. They currently are the three leading hybrid contenders in the mid-size family sedan category. The Toyota Prius hatchback—with its unique aerodynamic design, slightly smaller interior, smaller engine and 50-mpg rating—will probably appeal to a different buyer.
From Gas to Electric and Back
The Ford Fusion Hybrid’s 41 city / 36 highway mileage ratings handily beat the Camry Hybrid’s 33/34 and the Altima Hybrid’s 35/33. Ford engineers also did a tremendous job of eliminating the flutter-rumble that many hybrids make when transitioning from gas engine to electric mode. In the Fusion Hybrid, the gasoline engine seamlessly starts up and shuts down "with only the very faintest shudder” according to Automobile magazine. USA Today goes further: “There was no—none, nada, zip—vibration or shimmying in the test car when the gasoline kicked in to help the electric. No other hybrid—not even that $107,000 Lexus—can make that claim 100 percent of the time.”
The Fusion Hybrid—and its sibling, the Mercury Milan Hybrid—are the first vehicles to use Ford’s second-generation hybrid system. Hybrid-electric vehicle systems engineer Gil Portalatin told us that the control logic for the new hybrid system provides much tighter integration of engine operation and power delivery. The new logic goes as far as to vary the engine’s valve timing, fuel delivery, and spark timing to match the power delivered through the electric motor, permitting very aggressive fuel shutdown under light loads. As a result, the Fusion Hybrid’s 2.5-liter engine shuts itself off twice as much as the earlier Escape, with the electric system providing more power. In addition, new control logic for the regenerative brakes recaptures up to 94 percent of the braking energy and feeds it to the battery.
Zesty Drive
Enthusiasm from the auto press is also extended to the Fusion Hybrid’s road manners. Edmunds.com said, “Compared to the similarly sized Camry Hybrid, the Fusion Hybrid is a relatively zesty sedan…The Fusion's braking force feels reassuringly linear.” Jalopnik wrote, “The Fusion also comprehensively outdrives the Camry; providing a level of steering feel, control responsiveness and overall ability that’s far greater than that of its Japanese competition.” Nadaguides.com wrote that the Fusion Hybrid’s 2.5 liter 4-cyclinder engine provide plenty of power for freeway ramps, while hugging the road and offering a comfortable ride. Auto writers similarly praise the steering, handling, suspension and quiet ride.
The combined output for the Fusion Hybrid’s engine and motor is 191 horsepower. Besides the Hybrid, the 2010 Ford Fusion lineup offers a choice of three different engines: a 2.5-liter inline-4 with 175 horsepower; a 3.0-liter flex-fuel V6 with 240 hp; and a performance-tuned 3.5-liter V6 with 263 hp.
The one consistent criticism regarding the Fusion Hybrid's drive is that Ford exaggerated when it claimed that the sedan can go 47 miles per hour, and as much as two miles, in all-electric mode. That requires just the right conditions for acceleration, load, battery charge level, weather—and proper alignment of stars. Unless you exert extreme care to stretch the electric drive, you shouldn’t count on more than a few blocks at relatively low speeds.
Exterior & Interior Design
The entire line of Ford Fusions—including the base S, mid-level SE, well equipped SEL, and the Fusion Hybrid—hasl been spruced up for the 2010 model year. Cars.com said the new Fusion “keeps its predecessor's athletic lines, but adds some much-needed presence: The flanks seem better-rounded, the headlights sharper.” Car and Driver adds, “The refresh makes the Fusion sharper looking, particularly since the weird headlamps of the original have been replaced.” Reviewers said the Fusion Hybrid looks like an uplevel Fusion SE or SEL. But not everybody likes the design. Bloomberg wrote, “From the lackluster rims, which look like they’re made of plastic, to the generic sedan shape, the Fusion has no flash whatsoever.”
The interior, especially the high-tech features, gets mixed reviews, but mostly positive. Detroit News said, “The new instrument cluster looks much more sophisticated, and the dash has an easy flow. The touch points are soft, and every inch of the cabin uses high-quality materials.” Jalopnik said, “The Fusion is nicer inside too. While still not up to European levels of design, the Fusion cabin doesn’t revolt in the same way that the Camry does.” Car and Driver adds, “Inside, the Fusion also receives a new instrument panel, redesigned seats, and more stylish trim, although the quality of some of the materials isn’t yet on par with those of the class leaders.”
The new Fusions offer Ford’s popular Sync voice-activated digital entertainment and integrated mobile phone system. Other options include blind-spot information mounted on the outside mirror, a backup camera screen cleverly hidden in the rearview mirror, cross-traffic alerts when reversing, and real-time traffic and weather through the Sirius Travel Link satellite radio system. Other standard features include bags, belts, 110-volt outlet, six-CD stereo (instead of the typical single setup), dual-zone climate control, auto on-off headlights, and auto-dimming mirror.
The Fusion Hybrid uses a new nickel metal hydride battery with 20 percent more power, in a package that’s 30 percent smaller. That means the Fusion Hybrid sacrifices only a negligible amount of trunk space compared to the standard version—but not enough to retain rear folding seats, which are not available in the Fusion Hybrid. The Camry Hybrid managed to keep folding back seats.
Ford Hybrids Come with Fuel Economy Nag
The Ford SmartGuage "coaches" the driver on how to achieve maximum fuel economy.
The 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid and Mercury Milan Hybrid, are also the first to use Ford’s new SmartGuage technology. Inspired by the Toyota Prius’s hybrid energy/consumption monitor, the SmartGauge goes further by helping the driver to learn specific techniques to achieve higher efficiency. The dashboard interface offers feedback to the driver—both visual and sound. In other words, it actually talks to you.
The gauge cluster is comprised of dual hi-resolution LCD screens to display instantaneous mileage and fuel economy history—as well as key data including battery charge, engine output, and accessory power consumption. One animation depicts a vine of leaves that grows larger as the driver becomes more efficient over time. To prevent sensory overload, the system allows the driver to decide how much information to see, and what can be ignored. That’s critical, because many reviewers believe the fuel economy system is distracting. And others experienced “false alarms” from the cross-traffic alerts.
Economics
If you like the Fusion Hybrid’s more dynamic handling and performance, and smoother hybrid system, compared to the Camry Hybrid or Altima Hybrid, then get ready to pay for it. The Fusion Hybrid, with a base MSRP of $27,300, is $2,000 more than the Camry Hybrid or Altima Hybrid. And it’s several thousand dollars more than the base-level Fusion S trim, which has a fuel efficiency rating of 22/31. For reference, Ford’s other hybrid, the Escape Hybrid SUV, is comparably priced to the Fusion at $29,300 and offers fuel economy at 36 in the city and 31 on the highway.
Reaffirming Ford’s commitment to hybrid-electric vehicles, Nancy Gioia, the executive responsible for Ford’s electrified vehicles, said all its new products globally will permit hybrid versions. Gioia, a 26-year Ford veteran, told HybridCars.com that design standards have been changed to ensure future Ford “vehicle architectures” can accommodate gasoline, diesel, and hybrid powertrains. Not all vehicles will be offered as hybrids in all markets, she said, but Ford wants the option to add gas-electric drive with as little change as possible. If that makes it easier for Ford to roll out best-in-class hybrid features in compelling vehicles like the Ford Fusion, it'll be a good thing.
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41 / 36 MPG 5.74 / 6.53 L/100km
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BODY TYPE:
Sedan
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TECHNOLOGY:
Hybrid
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BASE MSRP:
$27,300
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Wow. The Focus hybrid looks like a winner. I sure hope it's priced under $30K.
I bet the 2010 Prius and Camry Hybrid, as well as the 2010 Ford Escape Hybrid, will also experience a bump up in mpg. I'm also curious about the mpg for the Honda Insight. Hope it exceeds 50 mpg.
We're going to see some interesting vehicles in the next year or two.
Picky what do you drive? I'm sure your son's lil fire engine doesn't go 47 mph or seat 5 comfortably. I have the feeling that when lithium ion battery design reaches mainstream the all electric range of the Fusion will increase significantly.
BTW the image of the fusion is nice. The glare minimizes the hugeness of the bottom chrome strip on the front grille. If I get one I'd probably have the bottom half of the bottom strip painted to match the bumper...
;-D
I drive a 2008 Hyundai Accent and mine gets highway mileage of 37 mpg and has a range of over 400 miles before I have to fill up. 99% of my driving is highway anyway. I track everything and keep tabs of my mileage...so this is 100% accurate. I paid less than $12,000 brand new for it....and after owning an X-5, Saab 900S Turbo, and a Mercedes ML430, this manual transmisisiion Asian value is the best car I have ever had. I absolutley love this car and I can't wait for the hybrid version. I will never drive a gas hog again...and believe me, I can afford to...but I refuse. Ladies, smaller IS better...at least in a car.
So, when I say that I am unimpressed with the mileage of the Fusion...and it's paltry 2 mile zzzzzzz.oh sorry , range on electricity..I am being very nice...This Ford is Fusion an embrassment and an insult to a smarter than you think consumer.
This is a really great car, way to go Ford! Funny they have an analog speedo, should have good all digital with the dash, would have been very high-tech.
I hope they make enough so everyone who wants one and can afford one can get it without too much hassle.
Oh Golly Gee Bob...What Division of Ford do you work for?
Your handle should be Pricky McPrick.
One of the few (relatively) bright spots in the Big 3 offerings (the Volt will be a bit too expensive), if the promises of the mpg pan out (Escape Hybrid was also promoted early on as a 40mpg vehicle).
Now they need something to compete with Honda's small upcoming hybrid. They need to break the 60mpg barrier (though they already did with the Prodigy.
When I see this thing actually for sale at a Ford dealer, I'll believe that Ford is finally making forward progress although it is still way too slow.
They should bring back their Ranger EV, make this Focus a plug-in hybrid, make a pickup truck version of the Escape Hybrid, and put the Escape Hybrid drivetrain into a Mustang convertible to make some money and quit marginalizing hybrid drivers.
None of the things I suggest would take billions of dollars worth of effort, they are all pretty simple steps compared to making a whole new car model.
If I'm not mistaken, I think it actually IS a digital speedo... just represented as an analog.
Ford has become the the Big Three Automaker that I would save if I had the power, but given the choice to bailout only one company. Of the 3, Ford seems to "get it" better.
McPicky I can see your point a couple miles in pure electric mode seems a little boring yes. But were talking about a mid sized sedan not a economy box car. Many Americans love comfort look how many boat cars are still sold to old people. Not huge gains in MPG's but its a start new energy storage systems will only make it better for us consumers. Someone will get on me but I hope the Fusion hybrid is not over priced like some past hybrid products from the Big 3.
Overall great news. *** Note to Ford how about taking a couple of these concepts to Washington next month to plead for the cashola Maybe dumb idea but again maybe not..... good PR for the Fusion and it looks like you somewhat care about offering greener products for the near future.
Bill,
I just wanted to pont out something to you.
You said,
"Now they need something to compete with Honda's small upcoming hybrid. They need to break the 60mpg barrier (though they already did with the Prodigy."
According to a few quick researched sources here is what i digged up about your vehicle:
" Its really what's under the hood of the Prodigy .... He points out that the CIDI engine is "just a fancy term" for a modern, very clean, very efficient, high-performance *DIESEL ENGINE* ." (1)
and...
"The Ford Prodigy is a 2000 low emission vehicle
*CONCEPT CAR*.... aimed at
establishing U.S. leadership in the development of extremely fuel-efficient (up to 80 mpg) vehicles while retaining the features that make them marketable and affordable. It was introduced at the North American International Auto Show as part of the Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles with the rest of the Big Three and the US Government. " (2)
....So, in essence, the prodigy WOULD have been a great MPG car... had it been manufactured. Also, because it was diesel-hybrid engine, it would have (of course,) gotten higher MPG than a gasoline engine. Why? because diesel has a higher energy content, and diesel engines typical have higher compression ratios to their gasoline equivalents.
Also, I hate to break your bubble again, but the Honda Insight... which came out and was PRODUCED a year before the concept model Prodigy, achieved 60 MPG Hwy, and guess what? It was a gasoline engine.
-Adrian.
References:
(1) http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=111
(2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Prodigy ( ....Interesting note: this is all the information that was on Wikipedia's website... i couldn't find the vehicle in the Ford Vehicle history in the same site.)
That's so American to make a digital speedo and have it look like an analog speedo. My first car had a digital speedo (89 Pontiac Grand Prix LE - 20 year old car!), and I have missed it badly in every car after.
Picky: For the ratio of efficiency for price, sure a hyundai accent would be better. But for comfort and utility for those that prefer or need a larger car, the Fusion hybrid is going to be a great choice.
I've always liked the Fusion since I first saw one. My only problem with this design is the stupid chrome bar right above the license plate, it makes it look like a cheap Chevy. Other than that, I think Ford is definitely going in the right direction. And I agree with Will that if any of the Big 3 were to be sasved, I'd vote for Ford.
The Hyundai Accent is more than anyone needs on comfort and utility. It's a nice looking car too. Listen, I know about luxury. I have driven many, many, luxury cars my entire life. I couldn't wait to buy my first BMW and my wife our first Mercedes. I've driven SAAB, and Volvo too and all I have to show for it is the fact that in twenty years, I spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in car payments and gas. I am in marketing and I just closed my biggest deal ever by taking out my client in my Accent. He knows that I am successful, he knows my reputation, but was so impressed that I had so much confidence in myself that I didn't need to pull up in a $60,000 car to seal the deal, that he gave me 100% of his business. Now, we golf on weekends and last week, he bought a Hyundai...a Sonata...He's 6'7" and the Accent was too small for him. He traded in his 2007 Suburban and loves the gas mileage he is getting. Now, every executive in his company and mine for that matter are trading in their gas guzzlers for smaller, non American economy cars.
When it comes to consumption, people are lemmings. They follow the "cool" leaders. I guess I am one of those "cool" leaders because I am the big, gregarious VP with a good rep and I basically gave everyone he non-verbal permission to go out and do what they always wanted in their hearts to do...buy sensibly. I taught them that a car does not make you a better person or sales professional or get you the girl.
Too many consumers have low self esteem and have been led to believe that the panacea for this is the big car, Armmani suit, and the $100 hair cut. I make my sales in my Hyundai Accent, my Tommy Bahama outlet store shirts and a $12 Custom Cuts haircut. If you have confidence in yourself, that's all you need.
Picky I drove econoboxes for years. I averaged over 35 mpg on the highway in most of them. My perspective is that I've made my sacrifices (in comfort, stability, quietness) driving these small and very efficient cars. I think I deserve something a little more comfortable than an Accent or other econobox. That's why I spent less than $10k and bought a used 4 cyl Camry. It is still relatively economical - I average about 33 mpg on the highway and it is very reliable. (I am not saying the Accent is not reliable).
The Camry is also more comfortable and most importantly for me - quieter (less road noise, less engine noise and less wind noise). This has nothing to do with confidence or self esteem (I still live in a relatively small house in an older and less affluent neighborhood).
I commend you for being efficient and having the self confidence to choose economy over style.
However feigning boredom at the prospect of a larger more comfortable car having better efficiency than the econobox you drive seems like over compensation in the other direction.
Especially since you mention one of your clients buying a Hyudai Sonata - which is the same size and class of car as the Fusion discussed in ths article. I say give credit where credit is due. I think Ford is doing the right thing with the hybrid Fusion.
Shines...fair enough on teh Fusion...but I would favor any Asian manufacturer over an American Car any day. The one car I failed to mention that I owned was the purchase of a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee back in the early 90's. I fail to mention it because I am emnbarassed I was such a sucker to buy such a hunk of junk.
In the 4 years I drove that car..(paid it off) I had to replace the transmission, I had 6 brake jobs (the brakes were not scaled to the weight of the car I was told), two electrical failures and various plastic parts fall off of the interior dashboard and door panels. It by far was the worst car I have ever owned...that says a lot...my first car was an old rusted 1967 VW Bug with over 100,000 miles on it.
After that purchase, I vowed never to buy an American car again...and I haven't. It cost me thousands in repairs. The Hyundai I drive has only cost me a few oil changes and air filters...routine stuff and it runs like new.
I too am disappointed Ford now says the hybrid Fusion will drive on pure electric power for only 2 miles.
In the 29 Oct 2008 hybridcars.com posting "Ford's New Smarter Hybrids," was the claim that "The Fusion Hybrid and Milan Hybrid can travel as a fast as 47 miles per hour, and as far as eight miles, solely on electric power."
Now they only claim pure electric for 1/4th as far. While many commute 8 miles or less, far fewer commute 2 miles or less.
Oh well, it's a step forward and should improve once Li ion batts' prices fall after they ramp up prdxn.
And there's always the EEstor ultracap we've been hoping for . . . .
Adrian,
Thanks for adding this insightful Ford-Prodigy info from the past looking to the future. GOOD ARTICLE!
Interesting how in the year 2000 Ford Chairman William Clay Ford, Jr sees 20% of all vehicles being hybrids by 2010. In 2000 Ford seemed to have a plan for aggressively promoting hybrids. What the hell happened?
Why is there a wide disconnect between VISION of the future and the reality we live?
How does a company expect to stay in business if they continue to spend a small boat load of money (~$58mil) to develop a product only for display and bragging rights then the whole thing turns into vapor?
Do I want to give these guys $25 BILLION to develop a hybrid car that was already developed in the year 2000? Can’t they dust off the prints and give it the green light?
Forget about efficient cars! Gasoline is cheap AGAIN!
Facetious Friday!
Gas is dirt cheap today and that is nice for now BUT we must get an alternative energy source for vehicles.
When is Eestor going to provide info! Are they, or are they not going to produce a silver bullet?
Reese,
Although gas is down to half the cost it was earlier this past summer, car sales have not rebounded at all...in fact, they have gotten worse. This is a sign that the markets are not as much gas related as they are:
1) Finance related...people can't get financing if there is a scratch on their credit. See CNN article, Crisis on Dealers Row http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/autos/0811/gallery.dealer_row/index....
2) Low demand for products available...This happened twenty years ago during the last oil embargo of the late 70's and early 80's. The boomer generation didn't want their fathers Oldmobile and that alone, gave Toyota and Honda all the incentive they needed to become America's new transportation icon.
We are approaching that same state of mind in 2008. We are wearly and tired of the big bulky car...Today's XYZ generation or whatever they are called today, are doing what we did 30 years ago and buying smarter, smaller cars. They don't want their fathers Suburban...they don't even like the word. They are all about urban chic, public transit and high tech. Gasoline is low tech...they are looking for V-2.
3) No trust in old American Icons. In fact Icon just is a euphamism for old and outdated. Todays generation...and that spills into even today's open minded boomer generation of older adults...we want more...we were the first radicals and why should we stop now that we are all 50+. Boomers too, all own Macs, IPods and GPS's. We text, download music and campiagn for our beliefs just like our younger offspring. We didin't like our fathers Oldsmoblies, yet we had a decade long brain freeze and bought the 21st Century of them in SUV's anyway.
4) History repeats itself. Now that we are back to our senses, look how history has repeated itself. Detroit got complacent, forgot what happened 30 years ago and has been caught with its pants down again during another crisis...and it will be up to the Japenese and other Asian imprts to come to the rescue again.
Great looks, Great mileage.
I hope this wins the mass market.
FYI : 2010 Prius will give 10 % less mileage than current Prius, since it has 10 % more power. Foolish decision on part of Toyota. When summer comes, gas prices will top $3 again and if the economy recovers, it may top $4.
People want more mileage. But Ford should also launch a Hybrid / Wagon / CUV version of these vehicles and those designs offer more space compared to sedan.
Picky,
Best post of the milennium. You are spot on...we all are sick of the way Detoit is running their business, tired of the poor quality, weary of the lack of tecnical breakthroughs on gas mileage.
Did anyone out there know that the bulky, heavy Model T got 25 MPG??? It seems Ford has gone backwards. Today's generation is not stupid. Technology certainly has had to advance to give us better than that first mass production car Henry Ford popularized 100 years ago, hasn't it?
But, McPick, your timelines are a bit off. The oil emabargos were over closer to 30 years ago...not 20. But I think you meant that...I have fat fingers too at times...
I refuse to believe anything any of the Detroit automakers say anymore. I hope they all go out of buisness and let the Japanese with their average cost per employee (with benefits at $45 an hour) able to give us more cars under $15 and 20K, .and ease our credit crisis.
Big, Fat Detoit's auto workers make $75 an hour with benefits...It was reported yesterday again...(this has been pointed out before, but is more relevant today in liue of this financial crunch)...Detroit UAW has over 12,000 employees showing up to work doing crossword puzzles, playing video games etc, making $35 an hour as part of a UAW contract provision that pays workers full scale that lost their job to technology.
Are you kidding me? That's just plain messed up. NO BAIL-OUT!!!! Buy IMPORTS!!! Detoit has messed with us long enough!!!
I've rented Hundai Accents. Sorry, not for me.
I think it's remarkable that the Escape can go 2 miles in EV mode. I understand that the Prius can't go 1 mile and only then at half the speed. To get increased distance, one mainly needs a larger, more expensive battery. I wonder how Ford gets 2 miles. I doubt their battery is twice the size of the Prius.
In my opinion, if the U.S. auto industry dies, the balance of trade will become more imbalanced, the U.S. dollar would continue to lose value--not to mention the millions of unemployed in the U.S. A bailout is the lessor of two evils, but I'm in favor of a lot of attached strings.
Gasoline will rise again, but it will be years before the price of oil significantly increases. This economic downturn will last several more years. However, i expect, and support, a significant Federal tax added to gasoline and diesel. I support a $1 increase ASAP.
Being a owner of a 2005 Escape Hybrid, I hope that Ford has worked out a way for the AC and Defroster to work when the Gas Engine has shutdown. Toyota has this feature.
I am excited that Ford is stepping into the Sedan arena. I would consider purchasing this vehicle.
Talk is cheap. Get some product on the road and then, maybe, you'll be worthy of some praise Ford. Bragging about features doesn't count for much until the thing is real, for sale, and affordable.
The Prius is still the king of affordable hybrids. There are still only two affordable gasoline powered cars for sale in the U.S. that get better than 40 MPG combined.
We're nowhere close to sustainable cars.
really cant stand Toyota Cars. I fell they are cheap, poorly built and unsafe.
Its so funny a ford now is so much better than a Toyota all you anti American Toyota people are scrambling to find an excuse to find any reason to bash this car.
Maybe its time to admit that Ford builds a much better hybrid that Toyota.
Oops they do. Sorry Toyota Cannery drives your car is inferior.
Now that Fords Quality is better than Toyota,
Both Consumer reports and JD rate fusion better than Camery.
So again we have a quality American product.
Again I have owned Toyota vehicles and I was not impressed they cost just as much to keep running as my ford and GM vehicles .
In fact my 1999 camery was a Piece of junk. It need so many new parts I gave it to my neighbor who was a mechanic.
That person Pickey is nuts.
I agree I have a Honda that at 130k need 4k worth of work.
I had to sell the car because of a stearing rack failure.
I think asian cars are bad as well.
My ford escape hybrid is great and gives me no problems. Something I cannot say for my Honda.
I am not sure about Toyota but my neighbor has one and I asked him how he liked it. HE said it was ok but he didnt think he buy another one. Said the engine was rough in AM and the dealler could not find the issue.
ITs funny people get so werid about Ford
This guy compairing his hyundi but he is compairing its highway millage to the fords city millage.
There is a huge difference. The hyundi dosent even come close in the city.
City is where hybrids shine becaue of regen breaking.
I have an Altima hybrid, same class as the Camry and Fusion, actually the same driveline as the Camry except for the ICE. I'm drooling over this car (Fusion). It has achieved significant strides over my car. I would love to have 2 mile EV range and 47mph EV. Bash all you want, this will be the clear leader in it's class if it is sold in 09.
And those who follow the various hybrid sites know that the Escape hybrid has a tremendous rating among it's owners. The biggest problem is that Ford is not making enough of them (and thus, dealers demanding a premium for them). But the vehicle itself is built and engineered as well (I believe better) than the Toyota. The A/C is now electric BTW were as it was originally run off the ICE, for the poster who was asking about this.
Hey cindy ssiekdera, why am I nuts? Is it because I don't subscribe to your opinions? The purpose of this site and of the free speech rights we have in this country, is to hear all sides.
I don''t agree with you, but that doesn't make YOU nuts. You are probably an extremely nice person...with a different viewpoint. That's how I see it. That's how you should see the world as well. Lisiten, if I was so nuts, then I wouldn't have practically an entire company downsizing their cars to Asian models...all because, as one of the leaders of thisi company I took the first step. Are they all nuts too?
By the way, a Honda with 130k and $4K worth of work needs to be put in perspective. Did you do routine maintenance every 3-5K miles of driving while you owned this car? Prior to the 4K of work, did you have any other problems? It's not unusual for any car to have some issues with high mileage like that. As I stated earlier, my Jeep Grand Cherokee had to have its transmission replaced at 65K miles. My first brake job was at 8k miles. Chrysler tries to fit a lesser frame on a bigger car and those ealry Jeeps had a ton of issues. They eventually fixed it, but here's my problem with Detroit...They tries too many times to fit a Square peg in a round hole with their chassis and drive trains.
GM for instance takes the same chassis and drive trains and tries to package them up as Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Buick, Chevy and GMC. They are all the same car people...just different window dressing.
To Frank Bellmont...My city mileage is restricted to weekend use, but I have tested that as well. My Hyundai gets 32 mpg city. I don't know how compares to Ford...I don't care...I have owned many cars and I really like this Hyundai. Did I mention it was a stick? I grew up with sticks and it's really fun to drive.
I read that a lot of components are limited by the Japanese to ensure the profits of there own country.
You know that's why I am learning about buying foreign cars. The Japanese exercise no trade rules. We have a 600B trade deficit and they never allow us to sell anything in there country. Its like they want to drain all our money.
They have parts suppliers that provide parts for the escape hybrid that will supply parts to the Japanese first and then limit the amount of parts they provide to ford.
Ford was upset about this and when they developed this car they found some domestic suppliers for batteries and other components I believe.
I own a Lexus and its the same as the Camery.
My father owns a RX400 suv and its the same as the Camery too.
Toyota rebadges cars all over the place..
Also My fater is allways getting mad at Lexus in San Deigo because he spent 2k right after the warrenty expired on the car and it started to rust.
Its so werid it rusted in CA and now the antilock sensor on the right wheel is failing and they want to peform normal maintance in the tune of 1500....
I think toyota deallers make people think its normal maintance but really its replacing components that have failed. I told dad thoese prices are not normal for maintance.
I have a friend with a old ford focus wth 200k with no problems.
So I agree that Asian car love is just a movement not fact.
YES! This is my thinking as well. Concept cars and "OMG aren't our engineers brilliant?" demos have really played themselves out. The Toyota Prius is the only built-from-the-ground-up hybrid with any decent market penetration (maybe the Honda Civic Hybrid as well). It's been around for years now. They are all over LA where I live.
It takes more than great engineering to bring a real hybrid car to the market.
Get these cars off the auto show floors and onto the dealership lots. We're tired of waiting.
My post (above) was meant to reply to DJB.
If you hit "reply" on an individual post, there's no indication of who you are replying to. Come on hybridcars.com. Show us a little UI love.
Mcpricky, It doesn't really matter what you get for mileage, It seems that everyone who posts on one of these sites ALWAYS gets XX% better mileage than the EPA figures. But then you have to add the same to the car you are comparing. The 2008 Accent is rated at 27 city/32 hwy for the 5spd stick. The automatic drops down to 24 city.
The same year Ford Focus gets about the same (it actually beats your hwy mileage). This is the class of car you should be comparing yours with. My daughter just got her license and was looking for used cars, she really liked the Focus but they are holding their value so well she couldn't afford one. Nothing you have been saying is more than anecdotal evidence.
-Good show Ford! Excellent design and engineering. Now, if only the UAW can come through on the build quality ...
-We have a 2006 Escape Hybrid with 30,000 miles without a single repair. We are impressed with its capabilities and think Ford has a winner with this drivetrain.
-It would be wonderful if Ford could bring over the European Fusion, and match its chassis with the Detroit-designed hybrid system. Hang in there, Ford!
Steved,
What...Ever...All of you pro-american car buffs are entitled to have your opinion as I am mine. I applaud your loyalty, I just don't happen to think you are very wise in doing so.
American Car manufacturers are in trouble for a variety of reasons...Bad business decisons, poor quality, pricing/value and the perception that imports are better. How did this happen? Why did Detroit let the Japanese, Koreans, and Germans beat them at their own game?
Maybe the Fusion is better...but convincing the American people will be very hard. It's hard to take Detroit seriously. What's GM's stock down to...$1.50? Fords is at an all time low too. The DJIA wants to de-list GM. Could Ford be far behind?
It's hard to take them seriously, because they don't seem to take the will of the people seriously. They had their chance to own the hybrid or electric market with the EV-1...and blow Toyota and Honda out of the water...Instead they mocked us, teased us and in the true shameless, defiant, brassy GM way of doing business, they stole the cars right from under us and destroyed the whole project. And you wonder why they are in financial trouble? What did that meaningless experiment cost them? Now they are playing catch-up and they may be too late to get us back.
The Big 3 will not get their $25B. It would be a very unwise and unhealthy entitlement...as are all entitlements...They will hopefully file for bankruptcy and re-organized more streamlined and effcient entities. I don't hate american cars, I just hate the way the companies are run. hopefully the bankruptcies will teach them a lesson...and run their companies like the japenese. Then, maybe they will win us back...
Picky,
110% agree with you on this:
"...I don't hate american cars, I just hate the way the companies are run..."
Short sighted vision from their CEO.
McTricky wrote:
"Steved,
What...Ever...All of you pro-american car buffs are entitled to have your opinion as I am mine."
Except I drive a Nissan. I'm just more open minded I guess. I buy what suits me and my family's needs. I certainly don't blindly buy US manufactured cars, and I despise the auto unions. But I also give credit where credit is due. And I think an unbiased person would agree that this Ford is certainly a potential winner.
Agree
People love to make it a Domestic vs Foreign affair but how can you downplay a decent attempt to improve hybrid sedans. No this is not a EV or long-range Hybrid but we are starting to see more competition and choices. Will Ford play games with the Hybrid Fusion, hard to say many are getting turned off by Ford's low output of the Escape Hybrid but maybe this is something of the past...
On the bailout that McPicky talked about, I'm more worried about the affects on the economy but I will say it was spineless and gutless for some politicians to suggest using the 25B for efficiency upgrades to be used for a no questions asked bailout some Reps and Demos should be ashamed of themselves for such a cowardly way of using taxpayer funds w/o any real teeth, any vision or planing for future concerns.
I read on the paper the other day that the CEOs of the big 3 went to Washington to beg money by their private jets. What?
Dear Picky McPicky,
We get your point, you hate American cars. Fords are the best, never had a problem, driven them to 200k miles.
Jacko,
I don't hate American cars... I just don't like the way Detroit runs it business...and in my opinion, the American cars right now just aren't any good. I sure hope someday they can change my mind...but there has to be wholesale changes in their mindset.
But I do hate Americans that have the attitude that you display... The term Ugly American is a result from the psuedo-jingoism I hear from Unions and self centered Detroits wags that think their you no what don't stink.
Calm down...we are all Americans that all want the same thing...to be proud of our country and it's products. Outside of Biotech, Silicon Valley, Pharmaceuticals, and Hollywood, there's not a lot to be proud of right now and the record low sales, and bail-outs are proof of the battered image. The automobile corporations, financial institutions, retail giants and home builders that used to be the stalwarts that fueled this economy are hanging by a thread. More oversite and better management is needed.
I also agree with the poster that made a great comment about the lack of commitment for Ford to produce more Escape Hybrids. What's Detroits deal? Why the hesitation to wrap their arms around what seems to be a popular car? The minute Toyota realized that the Prius had potential to be a big seller, they ramped up production. They seized an opportunity.
For some reason Detroit is hesitant to sieze anything that's not related to the old school muscle car mentality. I hope Ford surprises all of us and makes the Fusion a mass production car...but the past history of Detroit in general says that may not happen. I hope I am wrong.
This site is full of werid spacy CA types
They are so out of touch ....
The joke is American Auto industry invented hybrids and people are not bashing the American Auto industry.
The Japanese do what they do best steal our technology and trust me they dont make it any better. They just make it cheaper with more plastic to make more MONEY.
Thats right people they want your money.
And people praise the Japanese ?
Ha HA dosent work here I wont be blind to that.
Zach, you wrote..."They (Californians) are so out of touch ....
The joke is American Auto industry invented hybrids and people are not bashing the American Auto industry."
Are we Californians the ones who are out of touch? Are you serious? We buy more autos than any other state and most, if not all countries... The American Auto industry should be kissing our *ss.
I posted an article on another thread that Citi Bank basically got Detroits bail-out money. It's on CCN's Money web siite. Several experts are stating that Detroit made too many mistakes and must suffer the consequences of those mistakes through bankruptcy re-organization. For the record, none of those experts are from California.
According to the article..."There is nothing that Detroit has done in the past 20 years to gain any support from Washington or the public," said Bob Andres, chief investment strategist for Portfolio Management Consultants, the investment consulting unit of Chicago-based asset management firm Envestnet, which has $90 billion in assets.
"There has to be an end. The government can't own everything in the country. They may have to draw a line and unfortunately Detroit may be it," he added.
You can blame my comments on being a crazy Californian, but it seems the whole country is against Detroit this time around. If sales remain at their current levels, through December, Detroit is looking at the worst sales in at least 25 years. I don't have to bash Detroit...they are doing a fine job of self bashing all on their own.
Boy folks sure are being opinionated in this thread.
I have been an avid fan of Consumer Reports for years. They don't accept donations from manufacturers (including Toyota - so don't post that balony about toyota being the biggest donor). They provide excellent unbiased reviews of products. My car buying experiences have verified their reviews.
Consumer Reports does give Ford credit for producing the most reliable cars of the 3 American manufacturers. (and by the way McPicky - CR rates the Grand Cherokee as one of the least reliable cars ever made (its on their used cars to avoid list), so I can understand the bad taste in your mouth)
The hybrid Fords are rated just about as good as Toyotas and Hondas.
But Bill C they are not rated better. Consumer Reports even published a statement about Fords and Toyotas clarifying that although Ford quality is high and the quality on some Toyota models have slipped a little, the quality and reliability of the Toyotas is on average still better than Fords. I am not bashing Ford, just trying to clarify what Consumer Reports says about the cars. I am really glad Ford is coming out with the Hybrid Fusion. 38 MPG in the city is excellent. Ford seems to be the American car company that provides the best competition to the Japanese.
Ford is listening to their customers. It also looks like the Ford Fusion is coming out just in time. I hope Ford survives with or without a government bailout.
US auto makers can do it, just not in this country, not with the UAW.
http://info.detnews.com/video/index.cfm?id=1189
All,
Someone said, "Don't blindly buy American." I work for an American car company, and I would tell you the same thing.
But don't blindly buy Japanese or bash the domestics either. If Consumer Reports emphasized overall quality rather than relative quality, the "difference" between the Japanese and US in quality would be seen to be miniscule. The defects per car have dropped to about 1/8 of what they used to be for all cars. In other words, they're all good.
People like to expound on the crappy US vehicle they bought 20 years ago and use that as an excuse for never buying domestic again. It's your decision, but in the meantime you are cheating yourself out of choice, and maybe costing an American a job by badmouthing US products. The first Japanese cars brought to the US were crap - but they improved. I guess it's too much to ask that Americans consider that Americans might be able to do that too.
Let's face it, it isn't fashionable to be a "homer." Pundits, journalists, and even bloggers enjoy proving they aren't endorsing something for their own vested interest by ripping on other Americans. OK, but base it on fact.
American car manufacturers "build crap," but American brands hold 3 of the top 5 highest quality ratings in JD Power rankings. We "don't sell what Americans want," but 51% of sales here are American cars. Toyota recalls, numerously lately, evidently don't count. American manufacturers making sport utes is a sin, yet Toyota using them (until recently) to subsidize their Prius' price to look green is OK. Toyota cheapened up on their PCV systems and had engine failures from sludge: where are the headlines? Their business plan, until recently, was to greatly expand their large truck sales, and they brag about how they are bigger than the others (they're also heavier and get worse fuel economy). They even want to appear to be American by touting their domestic ASSEMBLY plants. Don't be fooled - their parts are mostly imported, and they're almost all engineered elsewhere. The good jobs and the profits go out of our country.
The truth is that the government and the buying public are more disingenuous than the domestic automakers. We have been through at least three oil crises, each time saying "never again," yet we still maintain cheap fuel prices (because the government doesn't want to be the bad guy) and then we buy large cars (because it's our birthright?). Any domestic automaker who hadn't built SUV's in the 1990's would have already gone out of business - remember that gas was in the $1.00 range. Bush said the domestic auto industry needed to "make a relevant product." Guess what? When gas is $1/gallon, and SUV IS a relevant product.
The result is that the government has a scapegoat for their cowardice: the US auto industry. The public can displace their guilt for falling back into old habits by blaming the industry that sold them their fix (we didn't twist their arms - really). Well the Japanese sold SUV's, too. The truth is that most Americans will not conserve fuel out of the goodness of their heart. Yell at THEM. Don't yell at the company that sold them the SUV, especially if you only yell at the domestic ones.
If the government sincerely wants to reduce consumption, then it needs to greatly increase the fuel tax. The domestic automakers will respond to meet the market, because they DO make vehicles the public wants to buy. Just because they aren't the vehicles YOU want to buy, don't complain. Do something about it. Lobby the government to raise fuel taxes, so everyone will buy fuel-efficiency and also drive fewer miles.
I'm tired of seeing know-it-alls talking about what the domestics should have done, in an industry that takes huge investments and your product comes out 4 years later, only to run into much higher or much lower fuel prices than predicted. The imports always have a market for their fuel-efficient cars - their home market. They can pay for the investment from their home market, then make a killing here. The American public is too fickle, and our fuel prices too unstable, for any domestic automaker to have any assurance of the same. If YOU were designing 4 years ago for this year, would you have designed for $4 gas or $2 gas? What would YOU design for 4 years from now? Will gas prices be $2 or $6? If it's $2, will anyone pay extra for the latest technology that you spent $4000 to put in? Of course not! Investing in hybrids made no sense when gas was $1/gallon, so domestics didn't rush into it. But guess what? Without government subsidies, they still don't make sense economically (for the consumer), unless the manufacturer can afford to subsidize them (which Toyota can).
The American auto market is the most competitive in the world because of our lack of protectionism, and also the most difficult for its home manufacturers, without a clear, consistent demand for fuel-efficiency. It's easy to pontificate - much harder to do something about it. As a domestic automotive engineer, I'm doing something about it.
We are all in this together. Wake up! Give the home team an even break. Maybe I had a bad bottle of California wine - I'll still try them again. Read the data behind the negative headlines - they don't always agree with each other. Look at facts - not opinion. Blind consumerism and America-bashing is close to losing us the most important industry in our country, largely because of the mindless, fashionable repetition of half-truths, revisionist history, and an unwillingness to visit a domestic showroom.
America faces huge challenges, and the American auto industry has some of the most dedicated and inventive engineers in the business (as generally acknowledged by competitors). Give us a business climate that creates genuine demand for the fuel-efficient products you want to see, not CAFE mandates that require cars that may make us "give away" the costs of improved efficiency! We can contribute to this country's recovery, but we need clear direction.
The current finger-pointing and scape-goating is killing our industry, and bringing down our society.
Very passionate response. I applaud your loyalty.
A couple of questions though. We all know that domestic Japanese plants are basically assembly plants of imported parts...but a very substantial portion of American car parts are also made in other countries as well...let's not forget that.
The following are excerpts from an Automotive News Article...
For example, you may think that the Dodge Ram is an American vehicle, but it's really not: Because Dodge is owned by a German company, DaimlerChrysler, and because its parts content does not reach the US threshold of 75 percent, it's actually an import.
And defining American made doesn't always mean in America...the American Automobile Labeling Act (AALA) was an attempt to regulate what was called “Made in the USA,” by requiring that 75 percent of the parts content be from the US or Canada.....Canada???
The Toyota Sienna is as All-American as it gets, despite its Japanese roots: the Sienna is assembled in the US, and 83 percent of its parts come from US or Canada. The next closest minivan is the Dodge Caravan/Grand Caravan or Chrysler Town and Country: the popular “Stow and Go” models are built in Canada, they have a slightly smaller parts percentage, and headquarters is in Germany.
Ironically, some of the more famous “American” cars are now getting caught in the AALA net. DaimlerChrysler – a German company that owns Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep – has such red white and blue stalwarts like the Dodge Ram or the Jeep Grand Cherokee on the “near miss” list. Not to mention such iconic American rides as the Ford Mustang, which is made of just 60 percent US/Canadian content. So, for all you import buyers out there, the next time you chat up your Yankee-doodle neighbor with the Dodge Ram, kindly point out that, according to NHTSA, your built-in-the-US import is more American than that All-American Ram grille. Or even that Impala bowtie.
MAKE/MODEL ASSEMBLY PARTS STATUS
Jeep Liberty USA 74% IMPORT
Dodge Ram USA 74% IMPORT
Jeep Gr. Che. USA 73% IMPORT
Lincoln Navig. USA 70% IMPORT
Dodge Caliber USA 70% IMPORT
Toyota Tacoma USA 70% IMPORT
Honda Accord USA 70% IMPORT
Honda Civic USA 70% IMPORT
Honda Odyssey USA 70% IMPORT
Chevy Impala CANADA 92% IMPORT
Toyota, meanwhile, has increased their parts volume from the US/Canada tandem to 68.9 percent, up from 52 percent.
MAKE/MODEL ASSEMBLY PARTS STATUS
Toyota Sienna USA 85% DOMESTIC
Toyota Camry USA 80% DOMESTIC
Toyota Tundra USA 80% DOMESTIC
Honda Ridgeline USA 75% DOMESTIC
Honda Pilot USA 75% DOMESTIC
Toyota Avalon USA 75% DOMESTIC
Toyota Corolla USA 75% DOMESTIC
Honda Accord USA 70% IMPORT
Honda Civic USA 70% IMPORT
Honda Odyssey USA 70% IMPORT
Indeed, quality, style and other on-the-street considerations seem much more important to car shoppers, even with all the clacking tongues on television. In fact, according to a follow-up report commissioned in 2001, NHTSA concluded that 75 percent of car buyers surveyed were not aware of the label. The study surveyed 646 people who had bought or leased new vehicles during the past 6 months, or were planning to do so within 3 months, and found that only 2 percent were “moderately or strongly influenced by the label because it identified the vehicle's country of assembly.”
Sure seems as though a good car – or a good price – trumps where the parts come from, who gets the profit or what the name on the grille represents.
MAKE/MODEL ASSEMBLY PARTS STATUS
Ford F-Series USA 85% DOMESTIC
Chevrolet Silverado USA 90% DOMESTIC
Toyota Camry USA 80% DOMESTIC
Dodge Ram USA 74% IMPORT
Honda Accord USA 70% IMPORT
Honda Civic USA 70% IMPORT
Chevrolet Impala CANADA 92% IMPORT
Dodge Grand Car. USA 83% DOMESTIC
Nissan Altima USA 65% IMPORT
Chevrolet Cobalt USA 75% DOMESTIC
Toyota Corolla USA 75% DOMESTIC
GMC Sierra USA 90% DOMESTIC
Ford Focus USA 60% IMPORT
Ford Explorer USA 80% DOMESTIC
Chevrolet Malibu USA 80% DOMESTIC
Honda Odyssey USA 70% IMPORT
Ford Mustang USA 60% IMPORT
Toyota Tacoma USA 70% IMPORT
Chevrolet TrailBlazer USA 85% DOMESTIC
Chevrolet Tahoe USA 67% IMPORT
My first paragraph above should read...
A couple of issues though. We all 'Assume" that domestic Japanese plants are basically assembly plants of imported parts...not true..also be aware that a very substantial portion of American car parts are also made in other countries as well...let's not forget that.
Picky-McPicky,
You've made my point (and this isn't just loyalty - it's basic reasoning), but you don't get it. I'm not worried about myself - I've got other things I can do. But the domestic auto industry is our last major manufacturing inndustry. If it goes, we are losing a huge amount of technology, resourcefulness, and control of our own future. I'm worried that my son will find that nobody's interested in doing anything constructive here - that everybody is in a service job, including suing each other.
You say "Sure seems as though a good car – or a good price – trumps where the parts come from, who gets the profit or what the name on the grille represents."
As I've said, comparing the "goodness" of the imports vs. the domestics is picking nits - so that's not even a factor. The perception doesn't match reality, but it is fashionable.
But the second part - not caring who gets the profit - is naive. By sending money overseas for vehicles made by very cheap labor in countries that protect their own industry by manipulating their currency, we devalues our dollar, help their economy, and drain the life-blood from ours.
But we have elected a government that would rather put American corporations at a disadvantage, be it through union work rules, a schizofrenic approach to fuel consumption (high CAFE, cheap fuel), so that if they fail when the same government botched the economy, no big deal. We are, bit by bit, giving the wealth of our country away by not dealing with our problems in an adult matter.
Our government also didn't step in when Japan dumped TV's on the American market, running the American companies out of business. Toyota has been subsidizing Priuses through their profitable cars, in order to win the PR war with a gullible public (never mind the Tundra the profits came from that undo the fuel savings of many Priuses). Are they dumping? Does anyone care? The Japanese government wouldn't let that happen there.
Our government hasn't stepped in to stop the manipulation of the yen/dollar ratio, which has been going on for 30 years at the expense of the Japanes taxpayer. Would you stand for that if we did the same. But because of deficit spending, we don't complain so we can keep on borrowing by their buying our Treasury Bills. So if you buy foreign, you are facilitating our government's war in Iraq, just like buying petroleum facilitates terrorism.
So we are willing to buy products from socialist countries that protect and subsidize their manufacturers, but only criticize our own manufacturers who are instead burdened by government, and have put up with this foreign favoritism for years.
The attitude is, "If I buy something foreign it's OK, since I'm saving money and I'm not the one losing the job." We all tend to think that way. We think as long as it's good for the consumer, it's good for everyone. So enjoy your Hyundai, but don't wonder why real wages in the US have fallen in the last 20 years. We can't just serve each other burgers.
By the way, the data you show only includes Toyotas assembled here, not all their cars. Significantly for this site, Priuses are 100% imported, and their plans to make them here have been delayed.
If we as a nation are stupid enough to set national policy against our own corporations in favor of others, maybe we deserve our forthcoming third-world status. If we lose the auto industry, what's left? Soon, all we'll be able to afford are products made in other third-world countries.
I don't really care what's in the black box under the hood. I want a car that I fit into with my stuff and that gets at least 40 mpg- at very little incremental cost- and that I can drive for at least ten years...
$20,000 is about the limit.
I can get a good car for $16,000 or so- so I'm not willing to pay more than $4,000 for the extra mileage....
I don't care if the thing runs on peanut butter or can go fifty miles on electricity alone....I'm not paying $50,000 on a car designed to save me money.
rwcole, I agree.
The way we are approaching reducing fuel consumption (with $1.80 gas and hybrids) is to save money on gas - no matter how much it costs us (in technology and subsidies).
rwcole,
You mention cost as a requirement for a car purchase...value is important to everyone, but Detroit/UAW won't allow that at $75 and hour (with benefits) labor costs. Toyota is more flexible at $40 an hour (with benefits) and that is why they are in the black and Detroit has their hand out for bail-out money.
BTW, do you think that the American Toyota worker is starving to death and is deep financial hardship because he is making a little more than half his Detroit counterpart...Absolutely NOT!
They will continue to happily work while their Detroit counterpart will soon be out of a job if wholesale changes aren't made. Yeah, the UAW really looks out for its own all right. Will the Union bosses lose their job too? I doubt it. Corruption comes in all sizes, tastes and colors.
Picky-Mcpicky,
That's a good point. The UAW is close to killing the golden goose. But that problem is being taken care of. The UAW contract brings in the same wage structure as the transplants in early 2010. We even made plans that took into account a "worst-case scenario" for the economy. Everything was on track to reach that point, until we ran into the economy no one anticipated. Now, those changes may be enacted early. The current situation may force some overdue changes.
Remember that there are many non-union workers at the domestics: engineers, managers, etc. We don't have the same protection, but get thrown into the same pile when it comes to being criticized.
When it comes to the overall industry, the UAW is only the tip of the iceberg. Most parts are outsourced now, and the supplier workers don't get paid so much, but will still lose their jobs.
Once the wage situation is fixed, we still need a reliable fuel price level to design to, to put us in the same situation as imports. Once that happens, you'll see us thrive.
That's great news...and something to be thankful for on this day. Thanks AP.
I think that ford is stepping up to the plate but is still taking baby steps towards the right direction. ford escape hybrid building 25,000 only and the same with the new ford fusion hybrid 25,000. They should take one more baby step and make 50,000 of the suv and sedan. As for toyota and honda i still love them for having the only hybrid cars that have 40+ mpg on the city and highway and are priced at around 22,000 msrp of course. No otheir company has done that and honda and toyota have had reliable cars for 30+ years. I never heard of anyone that on know that has any type of problems with there toyota or honda. In fact all i hear is how much they love there cars and how reliable they are that is a fact!
Don't forget " FORD" stands for " Fix Or Repair Daily " but i think the new ford hybrid cars are much reliable now so time will tell.
>Don't forget " FORD" stands for " Fix Or Repair Daily " but i think >the new ford hybrid cars are much reliable now so time will tell.
I thought it meant "Found On Road Dead".
You made the statement the Lincoln Navig. USA 70% IMPORT
It's assembled In Wayne, Michigan, The transmission is built at Livonia, Michigan and the Engine is built here in the USA as well. So where is the 70% come from????
Great posts AP, I wanna buy you a beer.
All this talk about reliability! I've owned two Toyotas and the second one, a 1998 Corolla which I still have, needed part of the transmission replaced at 70K miles (about $1.5K job) and is having problems again at 100K. Very boring ride and awful handling by the way! I've also owned a Honda S2000 (very fun car!) and a VW Jetta TDI which had several problems (about $2K in repairs so far). A few months ago I bought a 2008 Ford Focus for my wife and that's the funnest car (aside from the S2000) from them all! Great handling, 34-35 mpg (comparable to the Corolla), much better features that the Corolla for a better price. I bought it as a cheap option, but I didn't think I would like that car as much as I do! Of course, time will show how reliable it is, but it seems that Ford has made great strides in their reliability ratings so I'm being optimistic. Hopefully, GM and Chrysler can do the same.
You should really read the stats. So far this "family" car has the best numbers to date. I am not sure how you can compare a cheap, and I mean cheap Korean car to a mid size family sedan. I drove the Accent for 500 miles on a trip. It is a noisy little car. It has little room. Yeah, we all do not need a SUV or mini van. But a economical mid size family sedan is needed. I can see by your purchase history that you will not drive a US car. I am not sure why you chose the cheapest junk on the lot.
Ford will have a car to compete with it's size. Unfortunately it will be introduced a year from now. The Fiesta will have a nicer interior as well.
The EPA officially rated the Fusion on Monday at 41 city, 36 highway. A colleague of mine drives a 2007 Ford Fusion and he averages about 32 MPG highway, 27 city which are both very close to the current Toyota Camry Hybrid figures.
Ford has really come a long way and now produces vehicles that are better than Toyota and Honda. I am glad I invested in Ford.
The Ford Fusion gets 45mpg on the highway, but it shows that you know nothing about hybrids. Hybrids are good for driving in the city, because of the start/stop traffic. Why don't you plan on driving your Hyundai Accent in the city and see how many miles it returns. Also, last I checked the Hyundai Accent is smaller compact than the Ford Fusion mid-size sedan.
Check your facts and read about hybrids.
Thanks.
how about a hybrid fusion wagon...i know i'm dreaming but i'd love to see a small to midsize wagon hybrid. we don't like suv's but do like to be able to haul some people and some stuff around...
on the fusion hybrid, it sure looks like a nice job done by ford. i hope they are able to make enough of them and that they are as good on the road as on paper..
As an engineer who has worked on hybrid electric storage and propulsion systems for non-automotive applications, I understand there is far more to running a vehicle on electric power than just discharging the battery to promote range under electric power.
Battery life is affected by depth of discharge, charge/discharge rate, operating temperature, etc. Discharging even modern NiMH batteries below 50% will shorten life, you want to cycle the battery between about 60-80% to promote good service life while staying below 80% in order to absorb additional energy which happen and preserve power electronics.
To a lay person 2 miles on 100% electric power may not seem like much, but to someone who works in the field, this is fantastic for a small storage system primarily designed to cyclically recover and release kinetic energy, thereby reducing fuel consumption by up to 30%.
There aren't any production hybrids that can compete with this, and to add more batteries to existing systems would add both weight and considerable cost, well beyond the $27K or so price of the hybrid Fusion.
There will always be whiners and naysayers. Generally these people contribute very little to technological advances, but feel free to whine and complain when things aren't perfect. Meanwhile the 10% of us or so forge ahead making new ideas a reality.
10 years from now, the average person will be glad that Ford, even during difficult times, along with Toyota, Honda, Nissan and to a lesser extent GM has invested in trying to make larger vehicles more fuel efficient.
There is more here than is obvious at first glance. Consider that both the Fusion and Altima hybrids may become the basis for hybrid taxis in the near future. Being able to shut down will stopped, then to run short distances on electric power will help reduce urban pollution considerably.
Try that with your Accent or similar econobox and you'd get laughed out of town.
OK, I skipped over a LOT of these posts because there was just so much there, so maybe I'm duplicating someone else's thoughts, but here's my perspective:
I live in MN and my wife & I both have been following the hybrid market for some time. Last year we got married, bought a new house, and generally spent a bunch of money, so we haven't entered the market yet. I drive a 2005 SUV and she drives a 2004 SUV (we both had them before we got too serious). We want to replace hers this year, and we certainly don't need a 2nd SUV anymore, so we're eyeing the hybrid car market pretty closely. Since we live in MN, we get a fair amount of bad weather too. So the Fusion hybrid appeals to us for several reasons:
1) Better gas mileage than the Camry, and significantly better than the Malibu.
2) We don't feel like we have to sacrifice too much on space and driving like we might with a Prius or a Civic, or the reintroduced Insight. We want to find a balance between responsibility and comfort, and this looks like it might be a good fit.
3) To my knowledge, this is the only hybrid sedan to date with the option for AWD, which we feel is important given our climate. This is doubly important as we plan children in the near future.
I frequently see comments from the diehard hybrid fans lamenting the lack of mass market appeal of some of the vehicles. As far as I'm concerned, this vehicle address just about all of my concerns for a hybrid, and I'd say that there's a better than 50/50 chance this will be our next vehicle. Hybrids like this, in my opinion, are what will eventually bring the masses to the market, because I have to think there are a lot of people like us out there, who want a hybrid but also want it to fit into the realities of our life. So in that context, I would think every hybrid fan should be happy about the Fusion.
I am seriously considering this fusion hybrid, as the honda insight, which I was greatly looking forward to, looks a bit bland....the 2010 prius looks okay, although a lot of people have, for some reason, reacted to the front grille/hood protrusion, making comments such as it is a frankencar...I think it looks fine...I just can't decide...I am glad that Ford has something I might actually buy.....
I agree w/about everybody that we are misallocating resources (as usual)...we should be putting our hard-earned taxdollars into Ford, and stop flushing our money down the toilet that is represented by GM/Chrysler...as former GM vice chairman bob lutz said in 2006, "cliimate change is a crock of sh*(" and he thought hybrids were a joke....I think it is insulting, therefore, to just give these bozos anything....and "entitled" unions are a disgrace, when many Americans can't even make ends meet.....
"Maybe its time to admit that Ford builds a much better hybrid that Toyota."
The Ford product costs $5000 more than a Prius and gets poorer fuel economy. What is better about that??
My friend's Toyota pickup has been driven 200,000 miles. What a piece of 'junk'!
I wholeheartedly agree with you about the untrustworthiness of the Detroit auto industry. They have been the most visible example of American industrial decline and uncompetitiveness on the world stage. Their business model of maximizing quarterly profits at the expense of research and development is scandalous. They have persisted in trying to sell us inefficient and ecologically irresponsible vehicles for decades. They are always years behind the foreign competition - a continuous state of catch up with the Europeans (safety and performance) and Asians (value and reliability.) Their idea of innovation has been cupholders that will contain a Big Gulp. They don't deserve a dime of bailout money. They have been an embarrassment to the US. We will all be better off after they leave the scene and allow a brand new, vibrant and competitive American automobile industry to emerge.
Your Honda Insight is a joke. That's a matchbox car.
Nice job Ford on making a REAL car that gets great gas mileage. That is also 5 star crash test rated and won't get ran over by a focus, cobalt or even civic on the road.
You keep driving your death trap.
Finally, there is a good American hybrid! Now only if Ford would get Microsoft out of our cars.
I drive a Hyundai Sonata... Granted the Accent is much lighter, but my Sonata has an EPA rating giving it 21 mpg. I really only get 19 mpg and I commute 140 miles per day for work so those are all highway. I don't know who told you that the Accent gets 37mpg but they lied. I looked it up and your car's EPA rating is 32 mpg, which is a far cry from 37mpg. And we all know the EPA rating is assuming all conditions are perfect... You can usually deduct 2-3 mpg from the EPA rating to account for real life driving. That would bring your car's mpg to 30mpg at the most which is a good 10+mpg less than this car.
Now lets do the math assuming your car and the Fusion have a 15 gallon tank. We will also assume gas is $2 per gallon so it costs $30 for a full tank (that would be a dream for me). At 30mpg, you are getting 450 miles out of every tank while the Fusion Hybrid would be getting 600 miles out of every tank. Now let's say you find yourself filling your tank once a week... At $2 per gallon, that would cost you $120 per month. To get that same mileage in a Ford Fusion (1800), you would only be paying $90... You would be saving approximately 25%. Let's make this an annual figure... You would be saving $360 per year, which is probably a couple of car payments. Not to mention the 12 less trips you would have to take to the gas station to fill your tank.
Also, I find it very hard to believe that anyone would think trading down from a Mercedes ML430 to the bottom of line model Hyndai was a wise decision. You aren't kidding anybody... You can't afford any of those cars... or the Fusion for that matter.
I traded in my 2004 Ford F150 last week for a 2010 Fusion last week. The truck was a stellar truck with an abysmal 13MPG. I just drove from Northern VA to Gettysburg PA in the new Fusion and got 200 miles to a quarter tank of gas! That was driving I-95 to 270 to 15. Hardly any surface street in the whole trip. I am almost to 400 miles now at a half tank of gas. I have never been so excited about a car with this kind of MPG, accessories and looks GREAT, unlike the jelly bean shaped souless Prius. If you stripped down a Fusion to the bare essentials like a Prius, it would get the same mileage and look way cooler!
We've had our Fusion Hybrid 3 weeks and are really pleased. The handling is nice. And so is the interior finish. At 6'4" I was concerned about headroom with a moonroof, but it's been roomy enough. We got 'bells and whistles' and they all work as advertized. Cell phone Sync'd - and Nav unit got us there, though it's a pity that the NAV unit doesn't have the whole USA in it - but I'm sure there is software available for that.
The backup camera is really handy and the alerting system saved my quarterpanels when someone was speeding by as I was leaving a parking slot.
I thought that perhaps the climate control would affect the fuel efficiency. We're using AC continuously in Houston and (as a techno-nerd) I thought that I should be driving with it off - - soooo wrong! I sit absolutely guilt-free at stop lights with AC functional and the internal combustion engine off - life is good.
There does seem to be some cycling of the charging system at about 45 or 50 mph steady state speed - this can be a little annoying but it doesn't seem to happen often...
I'm still on my second tank of fuel so experience is limited - but my record high is 50.6 MPG - the record low is 14.6 MPG. My son and I had some - ah - quick accelerations (i.e. punched it). It's not a Mustang GT, but it did ok - and still got 24 MPG.
Overall MPG is is about 37 - pretty much as advertized.
I've had my Ford Fusion ('10) for 3 or 4 weeks now and it is amazing. A true turn around from old misconceptions of American cars. Ford finally nailed it - great look, great handling, almost 200hp and I get better mpg's than the EPA rated 36/41. Using the on mpg indicators - I keep it around 40 on the highway, usually averaging 40-45mpg's.
I got all the bells and whistles, but no Navigation - but thats ok! Because the MS Sync has an update that now gives you turn by turn just by talking to it (and it works nicely).
I see this as the American hybrid - no goofy look, good warranty (even better if you extend it like I did), and great mpg's - as well as all the extras (heated leather, sony 12 speaker surround, moon roof). All this without sacrificing the feeling of driving a real car (unlike most hybrids).
Feels more like a luxury car. Well worth it.
i drive a a 98 lincoln towncar and average 26 without a chip and 32 with the chip installed on a trip
around town without the chip installed 17mpg with the chip installed 22 mpg
why would i trade for somthing that rides harsh doesnt have enough power and luxury for 10 mpg.
the manufacturs have been able for years able to break the 30+ MPG barrier, i had a studibaker theat did over 30 all the time in the 50's. dont get me wrong we need change but the changes were withheld for a reason, probably to fuel the oil industry.
i am in the middle of a 3500 mile trip and i averaged 29 in the rockies, and no complaints
for me the Hibrid cars will have to grow up more before i will consider a purchase
at this point i feel the Prius is the front runner
The Fusion should be applauded, and I'm an import disciple for the most part. I do own a Chevy diesel truck (work vehicle) that routinely gets 25 mpg highway, which is amazing for a 7200# truck, and a gas-powered Maxima V6 that gets 30mpg highway. I am considering a hybrid car to replace the Maxima when the time comes. In my opinion, the two technologies are not competing, but complimentary. Both have a place. You can't haul a cube of bricks down the interstate with a hybrid and a diesel isn't well suited to short-haul city commuter driving.
The secret to the Fusion's (and Ford's) success is that it is truly an international car company. Unlike GM, Ford has fully brought together it's Japanese, European, and American arms in sharing technology and platforms. I would own a Fusion. GM on the other hand is trying to shed Opel/Vauxhall and has never succeeded in merging it's various international divisions, and Chrysler? ... not a clue, even with FIAT.
dis is crzy
I bought a 2009 Honda Civic Hybrid. But I want that Ford Fusion Hybrid like I want chocolate. The price is a bit of a put off, however. I wonder if the 2011 Fusion Hybrid will bring great mpg's.
Right now I don't know what kind of car is realy American. The Ford Fusion hybrid is made in Mexico, but looks like a nice car with good mpg. The Chevy Malibu hybrid is made in USA, but has very poor mpg for a hybrid. On the other hand, the Toyota camery hybrid is made in usa with decent mpg, but Toyota is Japanesse owned. Which one would you buy an American car made in Mexico, an american car made in usa with poor mpg, or a Japanesse car made in Usa?
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