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	<title>Comments on: UK Researchers Produce Petrol From Air</title>
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	<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/uk-researchers-produce-petrol-air-56827/</link>
	<description>Auto alternatives for the 21st century</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2012 19:24:39 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/uk-researchers-produce-petrol-air-56827/#comment-41045</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 20:50:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=12947#comment-41045</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A battery powered electric motor powers the Series hybrid car. It also has a gasoline powered engine but it does not singularly power the vehicle. The gasoline engine powers a generator which is used in turn to charge the batteries of the electric motor. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a rel=&quot;dofollow&quot; href=&quot;http://blogsparagays.com/&quot;&gt;gay blog&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A battery powered electric motor powers the Series hybrid car. It also has a gasoline powered engine but it does not singularly power the vehicle. The gasoline engine powers a generator which is used in turn to charge the batteries of the electric motor. <br />
<a rel="dofollow" href="http://blogsparagays.com/">gay blog</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jesse Gurr</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/uk-researchers-produce-petrol-air-56827/#comment-41044</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse Gurr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2012 01:49:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=12947#comment-41044</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The CO2 would be fairly easy to get.  Captured from a coal plant or something.  Wouldn&#039;t have to use that NaOH to get it from the air.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The hydrogen though....seems like a lot of wasted energy.  Take NatGas -&gt; Hydrogen -&gt; Gasoline(deriviative) catalyst for this process.  Lots of energy used and hardly any gained back.  I guess if oil ran out this would be like a last resort.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The CO2 would be fairly easy to get.  Captured from a coal plant or something.  Wouldn&#8217;t have to use that NaOH to get it from the air.</p>
<p>The hydrogen though&#8230;.seems like a lot of wasted energy.  Take NatGas -> Hydrogen -> Gasoline(deriviative) catalyst for this process.  Lots of energy used and hardly any gained back.  I guess if oil ran out this would be like a last resort.</p>
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		<title>By: MrEnergyCzar</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/uk-researchers-produce-petrol-air-56827/#comment-41043</link>
		<dc:creator>MrEnergyCzar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2012 23:10:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I can almost guarantee that they will not reveal the EROEI or net energy to produce the fuel, as in hydrogen, its a net energy loser or not worth producing....&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
MrEnergyCzar]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can almost guarantee that they will not reveal the EROEI or net energy to produce the fuel, as in hydrogen, its a net energy loser or not worth producing&#8230;.</p>
<p>MrEnergyCzar</p>
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		<title>By: DocDragon</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/uk-researchers-produce-petrol-air-56827/#comment-41042</link>
		<dc:creator>DocDragon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2012 22:50:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Indeed, GreenEngineer hit the nail on the head: AFS is no big news here, but the headlines make it sound like magic.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And let&#039;s not forget that NaOH (sodium hydroxide) has to be manufactured as well to make AFS commercially viable! That&#039;s another source of wasted energy!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
IMHO, fuel cell is THE future technology. The conventional ICE has served us well, but on the long run, it&#039;s time to look beyond oil.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed, GreenEngineer hit the nail on the head: AFS is no big news here, but the headlines make it sound like magic.</p>
<p>And let&#8217;s not forget that NaOH (sodium hydroxide) has to be manufactured as well to make AFS commercially viable! That&#8217;s another source of wasted energy!</p>
<p>IMHO, fuel cell is THE future technology. The conventional ICE has served us well, but on the long run, it&#8217;s time to look beyond oil.</p>
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		<title>By: Mason Kelsey</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/uk-researchers-produce-petrol-air-56827/#comment-41041</link>
		<dc:creator>Mason Kelsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2012 17:41:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=12947#comment-41041</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My degree is in chemistry.  The amount of energy necessary to construct octane from CO2 in air is enormous compared to amount of energy contained in the C8H18, octane - the main ingredient in petrol/gasoline, that is produced.  This means that this is a worthless process and at best a scam for ignorant Conservatives.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My degree is in chemistry.  The amount of energy necessary to construct octane from CO2 in air is enormous compared to amount of energy contained in the C8H18, octane &#8211; the main ingredient in petrol/gasoline, that is produced.  This means that this is a worthless process and at best a scam for ignorant Conservatives.</p>
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		<title>By: GreenEngineer</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/uk-researchers-produce-petrol-air-56827/#comment-41040</link>
		<dc:creator>GreenEngineer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2012 16:58:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=12947#comment-41040</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You do realize, I hope, that there is nothing new here.  None of this chemistry is in any way revolutionary, and much of it is quite old (FT, for example).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
More to the point, from a net energy point of view, this is just hydrogen &quot;fuel&quot; revisited.  Hydrogen is NOT and has never been a primary energy source, since it cannot be extracted in a way that is net-energy positive.  You always put more energy in than you get out.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In this case, they are doing the exact same thing with liquid fuels: they are using a high-energy-input process to manufacture an energy carrier.  The energy inputs in this process will ALWAYS be more than the energy available from the resulting &quot;fuel&quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now, there may be value in this, if the efficiency is high enough.  Certainly there are times and places when excess electricity is available.  So if the efficiency of this process is as good or better than, say, pumped hydro storage (about 50%), then it would have some applications in that context.  But based on the description of the steps required, many of which require an energy input, I think that&#039;s very unlikely.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is noteworthy that their site appears to say nothing about their end-to-end efficiency. I have emailed them to ask for that statistic, but I expect that they will not answer because the answer is most likely dismal (educated guess: less than 10%).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You do realize, I hope, that there is nothing new here.  None of this chemistry is in any way revolutionary, and much of it is quite old (FT, for example).</p>
<p>More to the point, from a net energy point of view, this is just hydrogen &#8220;fuel&#8221; revisited.  Hydrogen is NOT and has never been a primary energy source, since it cannot be extracted in a way that is net-energy positive.  You always put more energy in than you get out.</p>
<p>In this case, they are doing the exact same thing with liquid fuels: they are using a high-energy-input process to manufacture an energy carrier.  The energy inputs in this process will ALWAYS be more than the energy available from the resulting &#8220;fuel&#8221;.</p>
<p>Now, there may be value in this, if the efficiency is high enough.  Certainly there are times and places when excess electricity is available.  So if the efficiency of this process is as good or better than, say, pumped hydro storage (about 50%), then it would have some applications in that context.  But based on the description of the steps required, many of which require an energy input, I think that&#8217;s very unlikely.</p>
<p>It is noteworthy that their site appears to say nothing about their end-to-end efficiency. I have emailed them to ask for that statistic, but I expect that they will not answer because the answer is most likely dismal (educated guess: less than 10%).</p>
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