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	<title>Comments on: Tesla Bailout Request Spurs Class-Warfare Backlash</title>
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	<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/tesla-bailout-class-warfare-25345/</link>
	<description>Auto alternatives for the 21st century</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2012 19:24:39 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Macmang4</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/tesla-bailout-class-warfare-25345/#comment-15744</link>
		<dc:creator>Macmang4</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jun 2010 10:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=4366#comment-15744</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Watch the movie Tucker, same crime going on just this time it&#039;s over ethanol and oil, you think they will let this car happen and loose all that money. It&#039;s not just about the money it&#039;s the freedom of choice. I bet there are at least 1 million people in the USA that would help this company build these cars voluntarily, as they would fight for this country that they love, but the moms and dads of this country are still living the last generations dream. Control control control. Look at the iPhone it dropped in price quickly, the computer industry is a great example of what will happen when you have true competition, they are so lucky that steve jobs isn&#039;t in the auto industry, I would so buy one of his electric cars, lol I bet it wouldn&#039;t crash! &lt;br /&gt;
 ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Watch the movie Tucker, same crime going on just this time it&#8217;s over ethanol and oil, you think they will let this car happen and loose all that money. It&#8217;s not just about the money it&#8217;s the freedom of choice. I bet there are at least 1 million people in the USA that would help this company build these cars voluntarily, as they would fight for this country that they love, but the moms and dads of this country are still living the last generations dream. Control control control. Look at the iPhone it dropped in price quickly, the computer industry is a great example of what will happen when you have true competition, they are so lucky that steve jobs isn&#8217;t in the auto industry, I would so buy one of his electric cars, lol I bet it wouldn&#8217;t crash! </p>
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		<title>By: Chris Longley</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/tesla-bailout-class-warfare-25345/#comment-15743</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Longley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 10:21:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=4366#comment-15743</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Clearly a small auto manufacturer that came out of nowhere and has broken away from the pack by producing fast and cool zero emission vehicles deserves endorsing. Especially considering they will use the money to produce $30,000 and $60,000 models (code named Blue Star and White Star respectively).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
With the exception of 60 Chevy S 10 electric vehicles that were sold in the late 1990&#039;s, the big three haven&#039;t sold and aren&#039;t selling any ZEV&#039;s.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That speaks for itself.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clearly a small auto manufacturer that came out of nowhere and has broken away from the pack by producing fast and cool zero emission vehicles deserves endorsing. Especially considering they will use the money to produce $30,000 and $60,000 models (code named Blue Star and White Star respectively).</p>
<p>With the exception of 60 Chevy S 10 electric vehicles that were sold in the late 1990&#8242;s, the big three haven&#8217;t sold and aren&#8217;t selling any ZEV&#8217;s.  </p>
<p>That speaks for itself.</p>
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		<title>By: Zero X Owner</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/tesla-bailout-class-warfare-25345/#comment-15742</link>
		<dc:creator>Zero X Owner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 18:58:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=4366#comment-15742</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@ AP:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In fairness, a Bugatti Veryron has a 35% higher power to weight ratio than my electric vehicle, but my electric vehicles costs 0.5% as much as the Veyron and VW (the owner of Bugatti) loses about 1.5 million dollars on each sale of each Veyron. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Once again, the economics of electric crushes gas only powered vehicles, on dollars per power to weight ratio.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An extra $40,000 from the consumer for each 1% gain in the power to weight ratio, in this particular comparison, strikes me as evidence that ICE technology is pretty mature (obsolete). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also, my electric vehicle is much, much safer than the Veyron when it was under development.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ AP:</p>
<p>In fairness, a Bugatti Veryron has a 35% higher power to weight ratio than my electric vehicle, but my electric vehicles costs 0.5% as much as the Veyron and VW (the owner of Bugatti) loses about 1.5 million dollars on each sale of each Veyron. </p>
<p>Once again, the economics of electric crushes gas only powered vehicles, on dollars per power to weight ratio.</p>
<p>An extra $40,000 from the consumer for each 1% gain in the power to weight ratio, in this particular comparison, strikes me as evidence that ICE technology is pretty mature (obsolete). </p>
<p>Also, my electric vehicle is much, much safer than the Veyron when it was under development.</p>
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		<title>By: Zero X Owner</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/tesla-bailout-class-warfare-25345/#comment-15741</link>
		<dc:creator>Zero X Owner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 21:13:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=4366#comment-15741</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@ AP&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The American way used to be to crap out the lowest acceptable quality at the cheapest price with razor thin margins and make ourselves big on volume and then brag about market dominance. That&#039;s how we changed from an agrarian society to a (former) world power. We have been supplanted in this by the Japanese (starting with the Honda 600) and now, the Chinese (BYD F3DM). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The big 3&#039;s reaction to plunging market share, starting in the 1970&#039;s, was to game the system hard (bizarre NHTSA standards that create more dangerous vehicles, wacky CAFE standards that favor SUVs, corn ethanol scam (non-food ethanol works, though), etc., etc.) in a futile attempt to forestall the end game. The gaming possibilities are running out now.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On to the end game...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Transition (should have been doing this the last 35 years):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Electric, with a little help from ICE generators. Diesel electric series hybrids, anyone? Who wouldn&#039;t want a train on rubber wheels? Think of childhood winter holidays and the phenomenal torque. Maybe we should ask Lionel Trains to make a car (or GE for that matter as they have 80 years of experience)  - just put the smart key fob under the tree. &lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
End Game (now): &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Electric]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ AP</p>
<p>The American way used to be to crap out the lowest acceptable quality at the cheapest price with razor thin margins and make ourselves big on volume and then brag about market dominance. That&#8217;s how we changed from an agrarian society to a (former) world power. We have been supplanted in this by the Japanese (starting with the Honda 600) and now, the Chinese (BYD F3DM). </p>
<p>The big 3&#8242;s reaction to plunging market share, starting in the 1970&#8242;s, was to game the system hard (bizarre NHTSA standards that create more dangerous vehicles, wacky CAFE standards that favor SUVs, corn ethanol scam (non-food ethanol works, though), etc., etc.) in a futile attempt to forestall the end game. The gaming possibilities are running out now.</p>
<p>On to the end game&#8230;</p>
<p>Transition (should have been doing this the last 35 years):</p>
<p>Electric, with a little help from ICE generators. Diesel electric series hybrids, anyone? Who wouldn&#8217;t want a train on rubber wheels? Think of childhood winter holidays and the phenomenal torque. Maybe we should ask Lionel Trains to make a car (or GE for that matter as they have 80 years of experience)  &#8211; just put the smart key fob under the tree. </p>
<p>End Game (now): </p>
<p>Electric</p>
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		<title>By: AP</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/tesla-bailout-class-warfare-25345/#comment-15740</link>
		<dc:creator>AP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 11:46:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=4366#comment-15740</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Zero X Owner, I&#039;ll have to admit - you&#039;re interesting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zero X Owner, I&#8217;ll have to admit &#8211; you&#8217;re interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Zero X Owner</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/tesla-bailout-class-warfare-25345/#comment-15739</link>
		<dc:creator>Zero X Owner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 18:30:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=4366#comment-15739</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@ AP&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You assume wrong. Let me repeat:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&quot;I used real world, independently confirmed data. No figuring involved at all.&quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Look it up yourself. It&#039;s available publicly to all who don&#039;t insist on wearing last century&#039;s blinders or who are too lazy to do their own research.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I suggest that you purchase a McLaren F1 GT (not the boring, slow regular F1) and take it to a track to collect your own data so that you can futiley try to prove me wrong. My prediction is that you will break it before you even drive it all the way there, as gassers are hugely less reliable than electrics.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How pleasant it is that you are getting all shreiky and defensive, now that every single one of your arguments against electrics has been shown to be wrong. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ AP</p>
<p>You assume wrong. Let me repeat:</p>
<p>&#8220;I used real world, independently confirmed data. No figuring involved at all.&#8221;</p>
<p>Look it up yourself. It&#8217;s available publicly to all who don&#8217;t insist on wearing last century&#8217;s blinders or who are too lazy to do their own research.</p>
<p>I suggest that you purchase a McLaren F1 GT (not the boring, slow regular F1) and take it to a track to collect your own data so that you can futiley try to prove me wrong. My prediction is that you will break it before you even drive it all the way there, as gassers are hugely less reliable than electrics.</p>
<p>How pleasant it is that you are getting all shreiky and defensive, now that every single one of your arguments against electrics has been shown to be wrong. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: AP</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/tesla-bailout-class-warfare-25345/#comment-15738</link>
		<dc:creator>AP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 02:39:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=4366#comment-15738</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Zero X Owner, I assume from your response that you have no data, or you would have quoted it. It&#039;s better to stay within your range of knowledge.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jon, &quot;their last bailout&quot; never happened. The only one that received a government loan was Chrysler, and they paid it back early - with interest. In fact, the reason the paid it back so early was because the government was interfering so much with their &quot;knowledge.&quot; As far as doing &quot;nothing since their last bailout to prove they can operate their business properly,&quot; look at the country they operate in. America is the only one that has allowed free trade, welcomed foreign competitors subsidized by their home countries, and subsidized them ourselves to locate here. Our tax and health care policies favor new competitors (with younger, healthier work forces), while taking the Big 3 for granted. We have the most unpredictable fuel prices, most fickle government policies, and most fickle customers (other countries&#039;s customers support their domestic makers to keep the money in their country).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our government is the only one that has an adversarial relationship with its domestic auto makers. Other nations realize how important manufacturing is, and that you can&#039;t just cut each other&#039;s hair or serve each other burgers to get by. Canada, Germany, and Sweden all passed laws to rescue OUR companies&#039; operations in their countries before we did.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The domestic auto industry has made mistakes, but so has our government, and so have we. We love to rip them for past sins, but don&#039;t want to hear about their greatly improved quality or flaws in the foreign competitors. This time should be taken to straighten out (or form) our energy policy and revive the industry, not kick it while it&#039;s down. That&#039;s not the American way, nor in your own best interest.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zero X Owner, I assume from your response that you have no data, or you would have quoted it. It&#8217;s better to stay within your range of knowledge.</p>
<p>Jon, &#8220;their last bailout&#8221; never happened. The only one that received a government loan was Chrysler, and they paid it back early &#8211; with interest. In fact, the reason the paid it back so early was because the government was interfering so much with their &#8220;knowledge.&#8221; As far as doing &#8220;nothing since their last bailout to prove they can operate their business properly,&#8221; look at the country they operate in. America is the only one that has allowed free trade, welcomed foreign competitors subsidized by their home countries, and subsidized them ourselves to locate here. Our tax and health care policies favor new competitors (with younger, healthier work forces), while taking the Big 3 for granted. We have the most unpredictable fuel prices, most fickle government policies, and most fickle customers (other countries&#8217;s customers support their domestic makers to keep the money in their country).</p>
<p>Our government is the only one that has an adversarial relationship with its domestic auto makers. Other nations realize how important manufacturing is, and that you can&#8217;t just cut each other&#8217;s hair or serve each other burgers to get by. Canada, Germany, and Sweden all passed laws to rescue OUR companies&#8217; operations in their countries before we did.</p>
<p>The domestic auto industry has made mistakes, but so has our government, and so have we. We love to rip them for past sins, but don&#8217;t want to hear about their greatly improved quality or flaws in the foreign competitors. This time should be taken to straighten out (or form) our energy policy and revive the industry, not kick it while it&#8217;s down. That&#8217;s not the American way, nor in your own best interest.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/tesla-bailout-class-warfare-25345/#comment-15737</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 00:39:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=4366#comment-15737</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d far rather see money loaned to Tesla than the big three.  The big three have done nothing since their last bailout to prove they can operate their businesses properly.  Tesla is a start-up in need of help to bring about a paradigm change, Tesla is exactly where money should be going...  the future. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d far rather see money loaned to Tesla than the big three.  The big three have done nothing since their last bailout to prove they can operate their businesses properly.  Tesla is a start-up in need of help to bring about a paradigm change, Tesla is exactly where money should be going&#8230;  the future. </p>
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		<title>By: Zero X Owner</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/tesla-bailout-class-warfare-25345/#comment-15736</link>
		<dc:creator>Zero X Owner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:11:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=4366#comment-15736</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@AP&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I used real world, independently confirmed data. No figuring involved at all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@AP</p>
<p>I used real world, independently confirmed data. No figuring involved at all.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: AP</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/tesla-bailout-class-warfare-25345/#comment-15735</link>
		<dc:creator>AP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 14:41:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=4366#comment-15735</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Zero X Owner,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I saw a lot of words in your response, but no response. How do you figure that your electric vehicle has twice the power/weight as a McLaren F1? If you&#039;re using off-the line acceleration, that hardly takes any power at all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zero X Owner,</p>
<p>I saw a lot of words in your response, but no response. How do you figure that your electric vehicle has twice the power/weight as a McLaren F1? If you&#8217;re using off-the line acceleration, that hardly takes any power at all.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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