Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid

It's does the, job, but a V6 would work better than a V8 in this car. Brsides, can it even run on electric alone?

Yes It can run on electric alone, that was clearly stated in this article and on GM's website.

I think that might be part of their two-mode system, with some of the cylinders in the enginge shutting down when not in use. Therefore, it may be able to operate as a hybird v6 and then full v8 when necessary.

The tahoe is a very heavy car and it burns through a ton of gas going from 0-20, using battery power for this jump should save a lot of fuel/pollution.

I agree that using a hybrid with a v8 isn't ideal. I would love to see them put 2 hybrid motors in a Chevy Equinox with a V4, that could probably take on the escape for fuel economy, maybe even beat it.

how many miles per gallon

USA today quote:

"Official government ratings not yet available.

Four-wheel-drive, preproduction Tahoe test vehicle registered 18.2 mpg in about 70 miles of combined driving, including about 5 miles of light towing."

Hmmm... 18.2 is not all that impressive in mixed driving, expecially when we're only taking GM's word on the 21/22mpg. Manufacturers always inflate those numbers.

Also take into consideration that they have changed the aerodynamics an added 'low rolling resistance tires'. These tires are less 'sticky' than what we typically put on our passenger cars and off-roaders, and get worse traction, cornering, braking, wet/mud/snow.

What the manufacturers of hybrids know is that the added weight of the batteries cancels out almost all the efficiency gains. So they skimp on the safety with these slippery tires.

And in road tests by car magazines, no hybrid has yet to do better than 2-3mpg better than equally equipped gasoline powered versions. The only reason to build one is so you can charge an extra 10-20% for the vehicle.

Hybrids=propaganda? Only 2-3Mpg better? Whatare you smoking? Some hybrids are a joke, but not all. My Civic Hybrid gets 48 mpg (in real life, not the EPA #s,) 10 mpgs better than the standard Civic

My wife and I have a 270HP Highlander Hybrid. Although the towing capacity is 1/2 that of the GM we have 15K+ miles with average MPG of 26.8 all around. It accelerates better than my Dads 06' Yukon and generates 81.8hp per liter of engine versus the 55.3hp per liter for the New Yukon. This is pathetic! When the real world mileage of this vehicle starts to trickle out I bet it won't average better than 18. One other point, I do not believe that the gas engine stays off during towing or 0-30 hard acceleration. The current draw on the battery would force the gas engine to help out to maintain acceleration.

While it's true that many early hybrid designs did receive a lot of other mileage enhancements, the fuel savings in "full" hybrids (i.e. not Honda) are real, especially during city driving. While highway mileage may improve only 2-8mpg over similarly equipped conventional cars, in the city, all bets are off. Our 2001 Prius gets 44-46mpg mixed at 190k miles and can bump toward 48 in city only driving. No Camry/Accord-sized conventional car comes close, except for european turbo diesels with half the performance (which aren't available here anyway). What isn't ever discussed is that we replaced our first set of brake pads at 150k miles, there is no clutch or gears to wear out/replace, no automatic to rebuild for $4k and we've never replaced the spark plugs. Since Priuses were introduced in 1997 in Japan, almost none have needed a main battery pack replacement which dispels the misconception of this price time bomb. Also, few cars can out-accelerate our Prius from 50-75MPH where those electric motors can really provide a continuous burst of torque with no "kick down" delay from the automatic. This Tahoe will likely enjoy all of these traits. I hope GM will eventually offer it with the 4.5L Duramax due out in a couple years. That would likely push the mileage numbers close to 30mpg.

Hybrids are good for us, no matter what company makes them. I know 2 prius owners who have nothing but praise for their cars. Joe is right, most large suvs these days are status symbols or family cars. Yes, some are for work or sporting too. I am a ford owner, but I am looking at the new tahoe hybrid as well as the lexus rx400 hybrid, my reason, looks & the economic standpiont. We all need to consider that hybrids are a better alternative for anyone who can get them. The environment needs all the help it can get. So do we.

I agree with Uk Matt. We drive vehicles that are too d@mned big. Why defend somthing so useless as a status symbol? Thats the dumbest thing I've ever heard. They should have outlawed Urban Assault Vehicles. Not tried to moderately improve fuel economy.

If compact turbodiesels were sold in this country, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Hybrids are only the best available. Other nations enjoy better options than we do. That is sad to me

right on Nay....though I kinda like white.

Oh I never said there's not a market for any vehicle. If automotive history has taught us anything; its that a car company can produce the most ugly, obscene, oversized/undersized, overpriced, unreliable, useless, or poor quality vehicle and some idiot somewhere will find an excuse to buy one because its the new 'hip' thing to do.

I don't blame GM for producing such a vehicle. Heck, they're a business, they need to make money. The rediculous ones are going to be the suburban comandos talking on their cell phones while cruising in their Escalade Hybrids (by themselves with seating for 8), turning unsuspecting pedestrians into red mist and feeling unjustly good about themselves because they are saving the world with their 'hybrid' that still only gets a measly 20mpg (at best)

I'm not saying foreign armored personnel carriers are any better. Sequoia?(aptly named for a 10-ton block of wood), Land Cruiser? (I think Hitler actually wanted to build a tank named that) Armada? (indeed, the size of a fleet of ships). These offend me to an even greater extent. Because car companies known for efficiency should know better.

My preference would have been a Tahoe Duramax. Or if Ford had improved upon the Excursion PowerStroke or made an Expedition with CleanDiesel technology. Or if Toyota brought the D4D engine to the US.

A turbodiesel will see less of a dramatic change in economy under load.

However, you can be sure that your dual-mode hybrid will not be able to assist much. Tidal waves of gasoline will go into that V8 engine to get it up to speed. Whether towing, or just your typical lead-foot.

So GM seems to be winning the Automotive Special Olympics for now. Congrats to them. Now hurry up and pre-order your trendy new oversized hybrid SUV.

Dear Mr. Gore,
Please be advised that your mansion is excessive, even with solar panels. Please move out immediately. Also, could you sell your jet as well?

Thank you,
BigMcLargeHuge

That ought to do it.

But seriously, do we not criticize vehicles enough in this country? Is it not obvious to anyone else that automotive journalism is highly skewed?

Personally, I'm more skeptical of a vehicle when it gets more advertizing. What are they trying to sell? Why isn't it selling itself?

Case and point: pickups. Have you ever seen so many advertizements for the F-150? Silverado? Tundra? Over the past 3 years pickup sales have tanked. I blame them losing their usefulness to the builder, the mechanic, the farmer. A contractor can't buy a fleet of 5000lb gasoline-powered pickups getting 12mpg. They'd go bankrupt.

But the commuters do love them! Also on their menu, we have this lovely 6000lb 6.0L UAV. And whether you live in NYC, DC, KC, MSP, DFW, SF, or LA - when you accelerate in suburban traffic the V8 will kick in full to move the beast. If you live in Cooperstown, NY (etc.) you are traveling up and down mountains and driving in the country. The V8 will kick in full.

I say that hybrids are propaganda only because new car propaganda is the norm in this country. What was the worst thing you've heard about a new car other than it's handling being 'not the best' or 'slightly outedged by its competitors.' No, some vehicles are in fact 'not worth the powder to blow them straight to heck.' But nobody says it.

The status quo in this country dictates that to appear successful one must strive to show how much money we have to waste. So why criticize a vehicle for being useless? None of that matters to most people buying it. They not only got a new car, but the newest type of car. How cool!

I'm not going to change your mind if you are one of these people. But I do hope that you wonder if it was BigMcLargeHuge that was laughing at you on the highway this morning. Then you'll go home and kick a door and get your dumb friends to tell you you did the right thing by buying hybrid-zilla.

H.Ross Perot had it right 12 years ago. A steady 10 cent rise in the gas tax every year. Make the fuel cost more, Economy and alternative fuel vehicles will follow. SUpport the reasearch with the extra tax money.

Chevys have been my favorite cars. From the years that they started to today, they are the best.I wish I had a Tahoe like that.

First off, let's silence the haters....some of the common idiotic statements the web over:

1) Prius/X-vehicle/diesel gets 40+ mpg: My Prius is NOT going to tow my trailer. Neither is your car - this could. Furthermore, the vehicle you bought in the 1980's was tested differently than new 2008 models. The new MPG test is designed to correlate more closely to real world driving. As such, you have to knock off a few MPG of most vehicles to compare to current ratings. See http://www.fueleconomy.gov

And please, do not quote the mileage of the Toyota Highlander for SUVs. That is NOT an SUV. It is merely a car jacked up too look like an SUV. The Toyota Highlander only has 64 horsepower on it's real axle, this eliminates it use as a real SUV/truck class vehicle.

2) Why not use a more efficient 6-cyclinder than a V8?: Why not use a more efficient 4-cyclinder than a 6-cyclinder or V8? Well, obviously...power - especially during towing. But why not use both a 4-cyclinder & 8-cyclinder? That's partly what the V8 used in the Tahoe does. It reduces it's operation to only 4 cyclinders while cruising. So there would be very very little benefit going to a 6-cyclinder except to reduce power when it is needed. (BTW...my 2006 Dodge Durango does the same thing and I can get 19-22mpg on the hwy.)

3) Why not diesel. In Europe x model is a diesel and gets 50mpg. How come America doesn't have these? There are a number of issues with diesel. First off, our diesel is different than the diesel used in europe it's dirty (full of sulfur). We're in the process of changing that but it takes times.

Because of this fact, very few diesels have been able to pass our emissions tests. Give it a few more years and you will start to see the increase in use of diesel. Just wait until we start seeing diesel/electric hybrids (yes, this is the method that has been used in trains & submarines for decades). But until the pumps are filled with clean diesel, Americans will have to wait a while longer.

And when it does arrive, you will not receive this promised glorified 60+mpg because it doesn't exist. There are two factors that lead to this:

a) Most are the ratings for Imperial gallons and NOT the U.S. gallon. There is approx. 20% difference in size (thus a very skewed comparison)
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_does_an_Imperial_gallon_compare_to_the_US_...

b) This skewed comparison is furthered by the fact that we are often comparing apples and oranges. What I mean by that, is the European mileage test is different than the U.S. mileage test. Evaluates different driving conditions, use of air conditioning, etc. The result is the U.S. test tends to gives lower mileage ratings.

This doesn't even account for the famed "Americans and their big cars". Um, how big is Great Britain? How big are most European nations? Compared to the U.S.

What are the population densities? Rural versus urban? Okay, now more importantly, what about the moderate sub-urban? semi-rural? The truth is, we're more spread out in the states. Many American spend more time in their cars than they do any place other than work & home. So yes, we demand a bit more comfort & luxury. Where as a European can only drive for a day or so and remain in his country, us Americans can drive for several days before we hit the other side of our nation. (And that doesn't even count driving thru Canada to reach Alaska.)

4) What a waste!: I see it all over the place. The misinformed exclaiming the lack of point in a full-size hybrid SUV. 10 yrs ago a Tahoe received 12mpg in the city. The new Tahoe 4WD hybrid gets 20mpg - that's a 66.7% increase in city driving in 10 yrs & 33% increase in HWY rating. This also represents a 42% increase over last year for city mileage. Highway mileage hasn't increase too much - but that's because this class of vehicle has already realized some pretty decent gains in recent years thanks to variable displacement engines.

Now first off, you must accept that there is a need for these vehicles. (And there is...even that soccer mom people complain about driving the SUV by herself shopping. Well usually, once she is done shopping she picks up the 4 kids, plus their carseats, football gear, etc from various places and goes home.)

The real waste is NOT in full size SUV vehicles like the Tahoe. These have many purposes and are superb vehicles for their capabilities. The real waste is in crossover SUVs. These vehicles offer few of the capabilities of large full-size SUVs. They're not built on rugged truck frames. They're usually only AWD and NOT true 4WD (and yes it makes a difference). They usually cannot carry more than 5 passengers with any comfort. And they're towing capability is usually lacking. They are to the Tahoe what the Corvette & Z4 are to a Camry. They are the vehicles that tend to be nothing but status. Perhaps we should call them the mullets of SUVs. They look like business but they're really all fun in the back.

Very few hybrids can claim a 42% savings of gas during city driving. While it may not seem like a large number in MPG terms. The percentage IS quite large. Let's compare three vehicles doing 10,000 miles of city driving.

My 2002 Prius, the Chevy Tahoe 2007, and the Chevy Tahoe Hybrid:

2002 Prius used 238 gallons
2007 Tahoe used 714 gallons
Tahoe Hybrid use 500 gallons (214 gallons saved)

Sure, the Prius used less than half of what the hybrid Tahoe used. But is 214 gallons saved over the standard 2007 Tahoe something to sneeze at? The hybrid Tahoe nearly saved as much as the Prius used in total. In other words, putting a hybrid Tahoe on the road in place of a Prius doesn't do much good. But replacing an older Tahoe or large full-size SUV with a hybrid Tahoe very much does.

All that said, it's tough to analyze the difference in savings. Let's look at the Toyota Camry 4-cyclinder.

2007 Camry used 476 gallons
2007 Camry hybrid used 303 gallons (173 gallons saved)

In savings of total gas used by the same class, the hybrid Tahoe actually saves more than the Camry. Now, we're just looking at city mileage, but this is where the biggest gains for hybrids are seen.

But it's interesting to note that in city driving, the Toyota Camry 4-cyclinder uses only 24 gallons less to do it's 10,000 miles of driving. And would actually be better than the 6-cyclinder Camry Solar in the city.

****

Mileage for various Vehicles:

Chevy Tahoe 4WD
20/20 2008 Hybrid
14/19 2007
12/15 1998

Toyota Prius
48/45 2007
42/41 2002

Toyota Camry
21/30 2007 (hybrid 33/34)
18/27 2007 Camry Solara

Please note, fuel ratings use the new revised assessments based on new testing methods recently implemented.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov

Well, enough has been said here really. It's just funny how "we" all argue over 14-18 mpg blah blah whatever...I drive a 01 Tahoe..Love it!, but seriously, with all of the technology we have now it would be nothing for us to keep on truckin' in our big trucks and SUV's and drive the way we want to. Its very practical for ALL of our vehicles to get 30-35 mpg....but see, in the great 'ol USofA...we have a thing called government........enough said.

"The only advantage diesel presents is engine longevity and torque. Fuel economy will improve, but not on a scale that is on par with a hybrid."

That's just not true. There are a lot of idiotic comments floating around, but most of them are in SUPPORT of this vehicle.

The ones I listed coming to THIS COUNTRY, THIS YEAR are more efficient and cleaner than any full-sized hybrid. Low sulfur-diesel in currently in our pumps all accross the country. And the measurements are all on the new US standard.

Its very nice that the TaHybrid does 66% better city mileage than the old Tahoe, but thats just a testament to how lousy the original was. There are 2 automotive revolutions going on in the US simultaneously, both to improve economy. And despite the fact that hybrids came first in this country, clean diesels have just as much if not more potential. It takes no more time because its here NOW.

And as far as towing capacity, average fuel economy and performance go, these V6 diesel SUVs walk all over the TaHybrid:

BMW X5 3.0 Advanced Diesel
22 mpg combined

Mercedes GL 320CDI
21 mpg combined

Unfortunately the Audi 3.0 TDI won't be here until early 2009, but that promises 24 mpg combined.

If you are fine with 20mpg, I encourage you to look at the Q7 6.0 V12 TDI. 500hp and 700tq, 0-60 in 5.5 seconds. That means I could buy an Audi that out-performs many sports cars, and I wouldn't have to feel bad about it because it gets the same economy as a 4WD TaHybrid.

And since the TaHybrid actually starts over $50K. Its no bargain to begin with. If you're already brainwashed by Superbowl Commercials in favor of this vehicle, you aren't going to change your mind. If you are a die-hard Chevy fan, you are not going to change your mind. But if you are looking for a superior vehicle, look elsewhere.

As for the comments on only truck-based SUV's being good offroad, don't be rediculous! There are plenty of CUVs that would walk all over a Tahoe offroad. And some AWD cars.

Exactly, I drive a '99 4WD Tahoe and get 12mpg in town, and around 20-22mpg going 75-80mph on interstate. I always reset my tac and figure mpg when I refuel. Very consistent with the new hybrid, why buy?

Hybridsrule,

Not big on reading comprehension are you?

I never made any claim that was false, and anyone who has any interest in fact should pay very close attention to what I say.

Yes, burning a gallon of diesel doesn in fact burn more CO2. Never argued that. I'm just not sold on Al Gore's theory that CO2 is the primary cause for global warming. I totally agree that GW is occuring, but that it is just part of Earth's natural cycles and that we can bankrupt economies to solve a problem that is going to occur anyway. Preparation is more the route I would take. I think regardless of what cars we drive, we're already screwed.

I think the biggest problem is the number of gallons burned, because it increases demand on a limited supply of non-renewable resource. It forces us to be involved in nations we should not be doing business with, and make war over it when it threatens global oil production. Not arguing that.

But if you knew anything about the refining process, you'd realize that the 20% diesel-from oil is by choice and supply chain management. In Europe they intentionally refine 50% diesel-from-oil. And many small cars there get better overall mileage than the Prius. So no, their reliance on foreign oil does not increase by doing so. It could be done here, but it takes tolerance and education. 2 things that you seem to be without.

You are spinning facts. In a clean diesel, there will be no particulate emissions, NoX, etc. You are ignoring the existence of the entire line of next-generation diesels and using only obsolete information.

If it pumps out more harmless CO2 than a hybrid, that still does not support any of your other arguments. And there are still some that think CO2 is harmless. Fewer gallons is better for more reasons than just CO2. And no, CO2 causing global warming is not fact. The scientific jury is still out on that one.

1- the reason for a V8 vs V6 is the increased torque. This way they are able to run the engine more efficiently and keep it in lower RPMs which in fact has better fuel economy than maxing out a smaller engine when the torque is required.
2- on highway the cylinders will reduce from 8 to 4 to increase fuel economy
3- these cars are amazing...if you don't believe me just drive one.

I am sorry to say but you are wrong. Chevrolet does not offer a diesel suburban, as of yet. One is in the works but it is going to have to come in the form of a 2500 and will not be in production until 2009 at the earliest. As for fuel mileage, even if the Duramax could get 25 mpg at todays prices it would still cost almost $20 more to buy 20 gallons of diesel. So for someone that has become used to the size of a full size SUV the Tahoe Hybrid is a great choice. As for using a V6, it is not a good choice at all for someting full size. It takes more gas to get the truck rolling or to get up a hill than a V8.

DO NOT BE FOOLED BY "BIGMCLARGEHUGE" AND OTHER IDIOTS WHO DON'T KNOW DIDLY SQUAT ABOUT DIESELS.
It's the same stupid arguments from the diesel crowd against hybrids, blog after blog.

FACT: DIESEL HAS HIGHER CARBON CONTENT THAN GASOLINE.

So, that means your get more miles per gallon, but EACH GALLONS PUTS OUT MORE CO2. So, the CO2/mile IS THE SAME AS GASOLINE. Therefore, diesels do NOTHING for global warming.

FACT: 1 BARREL OF OIL PRODUCES 19.5 GALLONS OF GASOLINE, BUT ONLY 9.5 GALLONS OF DIESEL.

So, this "solution" to fuel economy actually INCREASES our dependence on foreign oil.

FACT: A TAHOE-HYBRID CAN EASILY BE UPGRADED.

Just take out the stock NiMH battery and swap it out for a LiIon battery (or just add more batteries and plug-in capability) and this big Tahoe could easily get 55 miles per gallon. DIESELS COULD NEVER DO THAT. And diesel fanboys keep talking about Algae biodiesel, which has yet to be produced, while the infrastructure for plug-in hybrids is here already - they're called "power outlets" or the sockets in your wall!

GO HYBRIDS

I totally understand your sentiment, sometimes larger vehicles are needed. You also may want to look at some other hybrids on the market that you may not have considered. The Ford hybrid escape is sizeable (but certainly no Tahoe) and is rated for 34 mpg in the city. That Saturn Vue hybrid is also rated well with 27 mpg in city and 32 highway and similar proportions to the escape. If you really are eyeing the Tahoe, now may be your time to buy though seeing as GM is throwing incentives at all its large vehicles (including the hybrids) ranging from low interest loans to up to $10k cash back. Best of luck finding your vehicle mam. : )

I drive a 2002 Tahoe Hybrid.
You can too.
The upgrade only cost about $1'200.00
I get to keep a car I love and saved about 50 grand.
Check out www.KickGasGoHydrogen.com

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