I will agree that ethanol it is “solar energy” because solar energy is anything that contains energy that was produced by the sun at some point, which is a LOT of things, but pure? And how does ethanol treat your typical automobile engine? It is very easy to be for a specific cause and not consider anything else, but this world does not work like that.

I don’t agree with ethanol if it is produced from industrial corn, an extremely unsustainable venture that is already over produced as a “food”, and now a fuel.

You can’t do just one thing, everything must be taken into consideration.

Just one book to consider reading, The Omnivore’s Dilemma

While agreeing with your points about market inefficiency, I did want to point out something important related to your statement that the “real cost” actually lies between $5 and $15 per gallon (not the “headline” number), according to the ICTA report: that report was written in *1998*. Which of the cost elements mentioned therein can possibly have moved *lower* since then? I’d say none. So the current number, or even the range, must actually be much, MUCH higher.

Steve,

Your comments WRT mileage and exhaust heat re: the Chrysler Turbine car are accurate, though curiously your mention of slow acceleration highlights one American mindset that could be discarded or at least modified in favor of better fuel economy, even while driving same car: the stop-light Grand Prix (a misnomer in itself). In Europe, even some of the bigger luxury cars are offered with smaller displacement engines than they are here, as more motorists are less concerned over the ability to zoom to highway speeds quickly (often legally and safely higher than here, BTW), as opposed to getting there then and cruising with the best fuel economy possible at a given speed. People in Germany must be buying the six-cylinder, diesel, or small-displacement V8 BMW 7-series cars, or they wouldn’t be offered for sale. Probably the cost of a gallon of gas over there is closer to the “real cost”.

The real price of gasoline
http://www.ethanol.org/pdf/contentmgmt/The_Real_Price_of_Gas.pdf

Also, to inject my thoughts . . .

Market efficiency has been diluted by the subsidies of the tax code for big oil and the lack of measured externalities. If consumers were to pay the “real” price of gas, then our behaviors would change. In my opinion, the true cost of gasoline, as measured by many of the studies, is much lower than it should be if you take into account loss of innovation and productivity. Without the efficient allocation of capital to products and processes that create positive externalities (solar is good example), new technologies go undiscovered. Imagine if the eight track had been subsidized-we likely would not be enjoying our music on cds, much less ipods and other mp3s. Also, alternative energy sources (more specifically solar, again) are easier to install in third world countries that lack the infrastructure to transport electricity. By installing electricity in places that have never had the luxury can greatly increase productivity and fuel further innovation. I can’t put a number on the true cost of a gallon of gasoline but I can imagine that (sadly) it is higher than we will pay in our lifetimes.

Technology moves in steps. By switching to E-85 and hybrids we set the stage for the most radical changes is transportation since the first automobiles were invented. It could be possible to have a sleek sports car one week, and a plenty roomy SUV the next from the same vehicle. I explain how on Breaking the Chains.

There is nothing weak, wimpy, or second choice about ethanol as a motor fuel. It has several clear advantages over gasoline in that respect. Indy class racing cars are required to run on ethanol and have run on alcohol for about 30 years. If it can run the fastest racing cars in the world better, it can run your car down the highway better.

Ethanol also has many clear and overwhelming advantages environmentally and for the economy. It is produced by plants from sunlight, water and CO2–which is converted to sugars, starches and cellulose through the process of photosynthesis.

Ethanol is pure solar energy in liquid form.

That is utter nonsense. The last time I checked, meat, fish, milk, cheese, all dairy products, and components of baked goods are all food—-derived from the end product of corn ethanol production. The ethanol is simply an added bonus. The original intent of ethanol production was to convert mountains of excess grain production in the 1970′s to high grade animal feed—and is still the main production of that production. It kept farmers in business. Without farmers you have NO ethanol OR food!!!

Ethanol can also be derived from sugar beets and sugar cane, currently FAR under utilized because sugar production capacity exceeds market demand many times over. The US has huge areas where sugar cane is a viable and desirable crop, and sugar beets which are just as productive if not slightly more so than cane can be grown in all areas of the US with the except of arctic tundra.

Germany and the US had commercially operating plants producing ethanol from cellulose waste, primarily wood waste from timber and logging operations from the 1890′s to 1920(when the US operations were put out of business by the Volstead Act(Prohibition–making ethanol production illegal). Many home appliances were powered with ethanol, it was quite common in this period before monopolized electrification, stoves, irons, curlers, just about anything requiring heat to operate.

Cellulosic ethanol can be made from any type of plant material with cellulose—the whole plant—including stover, the parts of the corn plant that are simply waste at this time, cobbs, stalks and leaves.

For further information and discussion, come to the forum Breaking The Chains, http://groups.msn.com/BreakingTheChains/_whatsnew.msnw

Get the whole story. Ethanol is pure solar energy in liquid form.

Ethanol is complete nonsense. Only a Republican would say “hey, I have an idea, lets start burning the food”. What is next burning kittens puppies and children for fuel?