He was ‘unable’ to shift into neutral? Herein lies the problem. The tiny shifter knob is just too sophisticated, delicate, and obtuse to THROW INTO NEUTRAL. Unlike the cars of the last century, the button on/off switch, the tiny bouncy springy shifter knob – is not intuitive for shifting into neutral in an emergency. For one thing, the display is on the dash but the lever has PNR indicator marks. which do you look at?
Toyota needs to put out training aids to owners on how to shift this type of car into neutral in an emergency. (hold the shifter knob to the left for 4 or 5 seconds)
An emergency runaway incidient is not the time to learn.

yes but the point is he didn’t even attempt to shift into neutral and it’s not like he wasn’t familiar with the car. He said he was afraid that shifting into neutral would shift it into reverse, I don’t know any car that does that.

If I were Toyota there would be software patches to do the following:
1) If the power switch is hit, the throttle is closed and fuel is shut off. The car will not go into a full power off unless the car is stopped.
2) If the parking break is applied the throttle is closed and fuel is set to idle.
3) If the breaks are applied the throttle is closed and fuel is set to idle.
4) If the power switch is hit, and the car is off and the car is moving above 10 MPH, to go to a full power on state even if the driver is not applying the breaks.
I would not think this is that hard to do. One of the side effects would be to stop people from driving with the parking break on.

blooger – “He said he was afraid that shifting into neutral would shift it into reverse, I don’t know any car that does that.”

Pretty much all automatic cars would do that. When you are in the D position and when you try to go to N, a small miscalculation would put you in R. This has happened to one of my friends when he was traveling at around 60 Miles an hour. The car violently stopped in the middle of the highway.

“Pretty much all automatic cars would do that. When you are in the D position and when you try to go to N, a small miscalculation would put you in R. This has happened to one of my friends when he was traveling at around 60 Miles an hour. The car violently stopped in the middle of the highway.”

Newer cars won’t do that. You have to depress the brake to shift into reverse and, even then, it wouldn’t happen at 60 mph. Modern transmissions won’t allow the shift to reverse until your speed is very low.

On older cars, shifing into reverse WILL NOT cause the car to skid or “stop violently”. It will slow down and probably stall the engine, which can be bad in and of itself.

So far all these sudden acceleration claims had never mentioned the driver tried to use the shifter to disengage the engine from the wheels. No shifter malfunction was reported.
I think at the emergency situation our heads can only think of using the brake to slow the car down!
By the Anonymous is right all the car has a safty mechanism that prevent you sihft from drive to reverse, unless you press a safety button or move the sihfter sideway to the reverve position.

This is where people need to learn how cars operate. In my Prius (2001 at 223000 miles) I can shift from D to N by pushing on the lever and it will stop before going into reverse. To get reverse I have to additionally push the button on the end of the shifter. Every car I have ever driven has a similar feature. My Chevy S-10 stops at neutral as long as I only push up on the shifter. To get to reverse I have to push up and pull forward at the same time. But the average person seems oblivious to these safety features. This stuff needs to be taught in drivers ed.

Being an automotive engineer (for GM), there are some things I know, and some I don’t. Take this for what it’s worth, then look it up if you know an appropriate reference.

To those who say he should have “put it in neutral,” there are two issues:

1) the selector is electronic, so there is no mechanical link to the transmission to tell it to go into “neutral” (as some have noted), but also
2) the Prius transmission has no real “neutral.” Having no clutches in the transmission to unhook the engine and motors from the axles, selecting “neutral” means the computer matches the engine and motor speeds to make the car “act” like it’s in neutral.

I have no idea what the programming is in the Prius, as far as when it will let you select what, but in any case, the computer(s) is (are) in control. This guy might be lying, probably doesn’t read his owner’s manual, but he might be right.

As far as turning off the key or switch, most of you know there is no key, but also the switch/button doesn’t “power down” the system like cars used to. The on/off switch is a primary request to the computer to shut off the system, which the computer interprets and will activate (or deactivate) actual switches to control power. Whatever the driver was trying to do, the outcome depended on what the programming is in his Prius.

Again, I don’t know what the logic used is: I’ve read where you have to push the button for three seconds, someone wrote that you also had to be below 50 mph for it to shut down.

The lesson is to know your car and think ahead. Read the owner’s manual and imagine you’re in a situation like this: what would you do? Student pilots routinely have power yanked on their plane by their instructor, and routinely find a place to land, line up for an emergency landing, and only get power back once they’re nearly on the ground.

People are creatures of habit. If you don’t develop “emergency procedures” when you’re calm, it’s really difficult when you’re in a panic.

This reeks of out and out fraud. The whole episode seems staged from the get-go. From Sikes visiting his local dealer knowing his vehicle was not on recall for brake issues to asking his wife to throw in a word about a brief acceleration episiode a couple of weeks back. Sounds like when a criminal is building an alibi. In addition, the brakes were working as evidenced by the fact that brake material was strewn all over the place where the car came to a stop. What might have happened is our man was hitting the accelerator and brakes at the same time to keep the car going leading to burnt out brakes.
How is it that we now have a whole bunch of creepy folks coming out of the woodwork to get their share of the Toyota class action lawsuit windfall that might be coming? In addition, the entire story about Toyota reeks of an effort by the US to discredit the top Japanese automaker to benefit American automakers. Hey, if you can’t compete on product, try and get lawyers involved.

hmmm (if indeed that is your real name), I know people are suspicious of the domestic auto companies, one of whom I work for, to be whipping up this whole mess along with the government. You know, the same government that treated us like crap on Capitol Hill, hypocritically criticized us for usinng corporate jets (as opposed to taxpayer-paid jets), and took no responsibility for creating a difficult environment in which to both be based and sell cars.

Yeah, they’re really on our side….

Besides, many frivolous lawsuits have been brought against the domestics, and I’ve heard little sympathy for that on this site. We even had NBC stage a fire in one of our trucks! It appears to be Toyota’s turn on the dunking stand.

Plus, domestic automakers have a lot to lose if Toyota gets hammered:

1) More regulations to “prevent” problems that plague Toyota (if there are real problems), but not us, and
2) More money in the pockets of trial lawyers, which will fund more frivolous lawsuits against not only Toyota, but us – AND will mean more political contributions to politicians and judges who are plaintiff-friendly.

So no, it doesn’t make sense for it to be the domestics causing this uproar. Look elsewhere.

Just passing on info from people who know much more than I do. Also, I have personal experience. The shifter of a 70s era Vega my mother had was bumped into reverse at 40 mph – the car slowed and the engine stalled. There were no lockups or other violent happenings.

Balloon boy take #2!

The body language on this guy tells a lot, just look at them shifty eyes… lol

I have a tough time beliving this guy’s story.

First indicator, the “Corvette Owners Club” logo on the back of his jacket. I suspect dude got caught driving 90mph and then it was, “Oh yeah, the accelerator is stuck. Somebody help me please….”

Kalo/Jeff

An automatic transmission has a viscous coupling, a manual transmission a friction clutch. Both should be the weak points in the transmission in the event the vehicle is moved from forward to reverse or vise versa. An automatic transmission should be able to handle the change better than a clutch but in either case, a huge amount of energy has to be dissipated.

Kalo/Jeff

An automatic transmission has a viscous coupling, a manual transmission a friction clutch. Both should be the weak points in the transmission in the event the vehicle is moved from forward to reverse or vise versa. An automatic transmission should be able to handle the change better than a clutch but in either case, a huge amount of energy has to be dissipated.

Read story with interest. Was a past member of CCM (Corvette Club of Mich) and Auto Engr who believes story is false. Maybe Totota has a problem, not sure but do NOT believe story.

Read with interest all of the comments and considering this man’s story, simply do not believe. I’ve heard the comments/video on the news. He must have an “ax-to-grind” with Toyota and doing this will help in the class-action lawsuit, to be filed later. Hearing his comments regarding not shifting into neutral as asked by phone operator….. if I have it correct…… he said both hands had to be on steering wheel to contol auto. Question is: how could he talk on cell phone to operator for more than 20 min and steer auto? Sounds like a phony story. Ron

Applying pressure to the brake pedal applies pressure to the hydraulic brake fluid via the master cylinder which in turn extends the pistons in the calipers creating a clamping force between the friction linings and the rotors. I fail to see where there is a computer or electronic device no responding there. Ignore the regenerative braking on a Prius. Yes, it’s there, but by LAW there is a purely hydro-mechanical connection between what the driver’s foot does and what the brakes at the wheels do AND by LAW those brakes must be able to overcome the full power of the engine.

Ignoring all the other possibilities (turn the car off, put it in neutral, etc) all this guy had to do to stop his car was firmly grasp the steering wheel and try and push his brake pedal through the floor and never let up on it. I bet his stopping distance would have been less than 300 feet from 90 mph.

It’s all very simple. The man is a liar. Why isn’t that obvious to everyone who’s seen his interview.

anonymous, I don’t think it’s law that you have to have enough braking force to overcome maximum engine+motor output. It is our practice from what I understand (at GM) and it is what NHTSA assumes. Law? Not so sure.

Aside from that, when ABS (anti-lock brakes) act, they do change the pressure that is put to the actual brake calipers, usually reducing it to avoid lock-up. If ABS fails (goes inactive), it’s true that you have a direct hydro-mechanical link between your foot and the brakes. However, if the electronics decide otherwise, this could be defeated. I’ve never heard of anyone mentioning ABS noises during one of these events, but most people aren’t probably concentrating on that right then.

This is part of the trade-off we make everyday in our lives: get ABS and make your vehicle safer on slick roads that you may often experience, but increase the chance that, under unlikely circumstances, an electronic issue COULD cause an issue.

Of course, this probably did not happen here, but it’s best not to assume too much when preparing for emergencies.

The only absolutely unalterable connection you have to the brakes is the parking brake cable, and of course if you yank on that too hard, you can do a J-turn. So if you ever have to use it hard, do it smoothly and keep the car pointed straight.

You don’t even need a lie detector for this man.
Borrow a phrase from Bob Lutz: “This is a crock of sh*t”

If you don’t trust your ability to move a gearshift lever from D into N, out of fear you’ll mistakenly put it into R, then you probably shouldn’t be driving. Who knows what mistakes you’ll make with the other controls. Intend to steer right but turn the wheel left?

Jalopnik.com has a great bit of investigative journalism on this scumbag bottom feeder..$700 K in the toilet, $24K in default payments to Toyota Financial Services Adult Swing Site owner – game over Sikes

I own a 2010 Prius bought in June 2009, one of very first in my state. Will it get recalled for accelerator/brake problems? I have not received anything.

Remember the Pepsi syringe in the can scare? Or the thumb in the Wendy’s chili?

This guy is a fraud! He filed bankruptcy in 2008, is 5 months behind on his Prius car payments and is trying to scam Toyota by claiming his accelerator pedal is stuck. That’s NOT the issue with the Prius! Has NEVER been the issue!

Toyota has got to expose this guy as a fraud and NOW! Remember the Tylenol scare? This is a fraud!

Barbara, no key remember? All of you forget the mans swingers web site unimportant. The fact is that he did not try to put it into neutral as the 911 operater kept telling him. He did not actually do anything that was suggested by her. she had also already told him to push his emergency brake and he did not try this rither until the cop told him through the PA system. I have watched the videos by the news people that tried the different ways to stop a Prius and they worked.

I do that a lot, throw it in neutral to coast down a hill (oops is that lilegal). I drive and Escape Hybrid, push the brake and gas at the same time and it does a fail safe move to protect the trans/motor. I would be surprised if the Prius is not similar.

richtr

in the same manual you’ll find there is also instructions to turn off the hybrid system during an emergency. the point is neutral is just one of many ways to stop the car, and mr james ignored numerous direct request by 911 to shift to neutral.

i think people recognized there are way more inconsistencies beyond reasonable doubt to discredit his story than consistencies.

You don’t need a kill switch, all you need to do is step on the brake pedal. When you do this, the engine goes to an idle and the car comes to a stop. It’s that simple.

sean t, you asked if the accelerator and brake pedals are pressed at the same time, will the car slow down from 90 mph. My answer (being an engineer not knowing all the details) is “it should stop.”

If everything is working properly, and the driver does things right, the brakes should be able to overcome the power to the axles. Someone said Car and Driver did a story on this recently and found that most cars stopping distance is increased substantially, but you can still stop. However, there are complicating factors:

1) IF the throttle (on the engine) is stuck wide open, the engine produces little vacuum to assist the brakes. Under those conditions, you can depress the brakes 2-3 times with full assist (from the stored vacuum), then you may run out and not be able to brake hard unless the throttle closes down.

2) If you wait until you’re doing 90 MPH, and don’t stop the car “assertively,” but ride them for some distance, you could overheat the brakes, which causes them to fade (the brake fluid boils and makes the pedal go mushy – this is common in amateur racing). Once the brakes are overheated, it may be a while before you can brake hard again. It’s best to brake hard once and bring the car to a stop. Braking from 90 to zero produces 4 times the heat of braking 45 to zero.

Mike, why are you saying that when you step on the brake, the engine goes to idle? That might be true when disengaging cruise control, but if your foot’s on the throttle or the throttle is somehow being erroneously opened by electronics, I don’t see how that’s necessarily true. Remember that the complaints are that something is malfunctioning, so typical behavior is no longer typical.

The main thing to remember is that IF this is a real problem and IF this happens to you, you can mechanically pop manuals and automatics into neutral and coast to a stop (if the engine rev’s, who cares?). On the Prius, not putting power to the axles is still up the electronics, there being no mechanical way to shut off power. Brake hard ONCE to zero (to save your vacuum) and when you’re nearly stopped, pull the parking brake (which is mechanical), to keep it there.

Sikes’ story sounds fishy to me (con job?), but that doesn’t mean there is no problem in other cases. Plus, you should always know what to do when things go wrong. This goes for ALL CARS.

I doubt the veracity of this story. If the accelerator was stuck, the speed of the car would exceed 90 MPH. If he was riding the brakes, there would be evidence of glazing of the pads or rotor and there would have been a distinct smell.

Also, the push button on/off switch on my car (not Toyota) bothers me. I have tried turning it off while going 30 MPH on an empty straight road. The computers ignores my “request”. I do do know how to shift to neutral, so I don’t think I’ll ever have an unintended acceleration issue.

BisMan, your worries reminded me of the time when airbus went to fly by wire system, similar questions have came up. it’s a healthy debate. just like watches, there will always be people who like analog watch vs digital ones. I’m kind of half and half myself (e.g. don’t like the digital speedometer on the prius but like other electronic components)

Mr. Sikes’ body language strongly suggests that he is not telling the truth. He continually shifts his eyes away from the interviewer as if dodging. Nor do the specifics of his story make sense. In 20 minutes, he could not bring himself to shift into neutral or press the PowerOff button or to engage the emergency brake? And he’s been driving the Prius for how many years? Then why? Well, try following the money:

Two years ago, Sikes filed for bankruptcy in San Diego. Documents show he was more than $700,000 in debt and owed Toyota $19000 for his Prius, his sole remaining car. Toyota was listed as a $19,000 creditor, the value of the leased Prius, which has to be returned. Sikes’ bankruptcy court filing showed he also owed $115,000 on 16 credit cards:
http://jalopnik.com/5491101/did-bankrupt-runaway-prius-driver-fake-unintended-acceleration

The fact that neither Toyota or NHTSA can not find a problem with the man’s Prius is NOT proof that the clame is fraudulent. If it was an easy problem to find Toyota would have found it well before the cars entered production.

TSvi Epstein, the key question in the B gear is: does it limit the car to a low upper speed limit when accelerator is stuck like gears 1 and 2 in automatic? My understanding is no, but i could be wrong.

jagwal, I believe the term for what you’re describing is being “dead right.” Tires should never blow out, people should never pull out in front of you, and you should never have to take preventive or evasive action because of it. You may be “in the right” when you have the fatal accident, but you’re still dead.

If you take that attitude, you are also putting your life in someone else’s hands all the time. I’d rather do the 20 minutes of research on what to do in emergencies and be ready – just in case.

I am the owner of a 2008 Prius and I love it. I’ve never had a problem whatsoever, but apparently because of these reports and the Toyota recall, my insurance jumped this past year by almost 150.00 per year. I can’t understand why such a huge increase for a small economical car that is also helping the environment. I found some really good safety ideas at http://www.acdcind.com to go along with a short dissertation to my insurance company to ask them to reassess the premiums on these cars, however its stories like these that end up costing us honest people the most.

If true, it’s time you find a new car insurance company. Especially since the most sensational claim (Jim Sikes) was proven to be a hoax.

As for the other recalls, all the floormats should have been changed and all the gas pedals cut shorter.

If it was me, I’d call my agent and tell him to knock the premium back down or I’d find other insurance.

it wasn’t doing anything and it just kept speeding up.” The story was picked up by major national media and ricocheted around the Internet.Consulting Blog

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