Comments on: Plug-in Hybrids Roll On, in Stimulus Package

By: Margaret

Margaret — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 12:55:55 +0000

Tax credits for buyers and manufacturers of plug-in hybrid vehicles; since there are few, if any, plug-in hybrid cars available for purchase, this is a scam. Maybe it’s a stimulus for the manufacturer but surely not one for the buyer. Why not reinstate the credit for just buying a hybrid?

By: hsr0601

hsr0601 — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 05:54:29 +0000

There is an inventor from Wisconsin who invented an all-electric car in the form of a Ford Ranger that was shown at the KARE 11 fair booth at the 2008 Minnesota State Fair.

It is capable of reaching 100 miles per hour in speed, has a range of 300 miles, charges in 10 minutes and is pollution free with only the pollution that is done to make the electricity to charge it.

The inventor of this invention has, to my understanding, approached Ford Motor Company with his invention. The Ford Motor Company, in my estimation, should latch onto this idea, pronto.

My understanding is there are members of Congress who are trying to shoot down this idea of an electric car.

Where is there any common sense in this country?

By: DaveinOlyWA

DaveinOlyWA — Sat, 21 Feb 2009 17:30:14 +0000

cash for clunkers would have been a perfect new cash cow for the mob. no way it could have been effectively managed on a such a large widespread scale without proper monitoring to insure the person getting the car actually drove it.

a much better idea would be a nationwide subsidized lease program. based on the person's ability to pay and allows them a high mileage commuter car to drive on a daily basis while still having the much larger family vehicle at home for the much less frequent times when moving the entire family is needed.

much less intrusive than car-pooling, etc.

By: Bryce

Bryce — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 23:52:01 +0000

It’s 78% that drives 40 miles or less a day. Which is why GM fixed on that number. In fact, they are so convinced that this is the right number that in future generations and yearly updates, the goal is to bring down cost and size of the battery pack instead of increasing range therby making it more cost effective for joe blow car buyer. As it should be, considering that it has no transmission and only a small 4 cylinder that is never under excess stress and runs in predetermined RPM ranges. The complicated drivetrain transmission if a paralell hybrid poses long term problems of lowering costs to the consumer, and profitability to the automaker. (not to mention maintenance)

By: Lost Prius to wife

Lost Prius to wife — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 20:24:57 +0000

Bryce, if one can take the best advantage of that first forty miles “out of the wall plug” on an extremely regular basis, and do not mind refueling at 340 miles and every ~300 miles thereafter on longer trips, the Chevy Volt will be very hard to beat cost wise in the long run. If one travels fifty or more miles daily without a way to recharge before coming back to the garage, and wanting to travel ~550+ miles before filling up on long trips, this would tip the scale towards the Prius in the long run. Serial hybrid plug-in (GM) definitely has the advantage for the short runs (~40 miles or less). But the power split hybrid plug-in (Toyota) has the advantage once the runs become longer (~50 miles or more). Based on most demographic models that I am aware of, the (~40 miles or less) group is the largest group (greater than 50%, but I do not know what the actual percent is).

And we can count on Honda mixing it up with both GM and Toyota. Honda uses a true parallel hybrid system now (electric motor/generator and gas engine that run/stop at the same time and direct drives to the wheels). And one can only assume that they will produce a true parallel hybrid plug-in system. Who knows what it will be capable of doing.

By: Scott

Scott — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 19:35:20 +0000

The “Cash for Clunkers” part should have had an income qualification in it, so that lower income families or single parents with clunkers would be the ones to qualify. After all, who more than the poor need to save money on gas?

By: Bryce

Bryce — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 18:56:17 +0000

Exactly, except the difference will be in the drivetrain. I will be a decision of no gas (for the vast majority of drivers) or a little gas. Series or parallel. That will be the next duel out there. GM and Fisker have gone for series while Ford and Toyota have gone for parallel. We will see what comes out on top.

By: Lost Prius to wife

Lost Prius to wife — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 16:46:25 +0000

Samie, if you were quoting a politician about the “electric golf carts” comment, and you were not stating an opinion, I did misread what you said and apologize. And you are correct in saying “how silly some are being in Washington.”

You are right; Toyota will not easily give up their leadership in hybrids. But the 3rd generation Prius may not start out at under $23K, or even $25K (and remember: each $1K increase to any car = less buyers). And the upper end Prius, with the radar, solar roof, and other bells and whistles, I doubt will be selling for under $30K (more likely $35K or more). Now we add in $7K to $10K (maybe it will be cheaper; I think this is a good estimate for now) for the 16Kh lithium battery plug-in. This puts it right in the price range of the Chevy Volt. For example, $23K base Prius + $10K battery = $33K versus the Chevy Volt’s $34K. Or $35K upper end Prius + $10K battery = $45K versus the Chevy Volt’s $45K. Of course these prices are based off what I would consider reasonable estimates and could easily vary, and probably will vary, from what will be the actual cost.

Should my estimates be close to true, do you think Chevy will be able to give Toyota a “run for their money”?

By: Samie

Samie — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 00:28:03 +0000

Lost Prius to wife not sure if you read my comment but I was paraphrasing what a politician said “electric golf carts” that was not my opinion but the comment shows how silly some are being in Washington.

Interesting view about GM being first to mass produce plugins. It will take a few years to get the Volt down in price and become economical so I'm sure Toyota will not easily give up their control on hybrids.

By: Lost Prius to wife

Lost Prius to wife — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 23:37:15 +0000

Boom Boom, I think they felt that they would have a hard time selling the idea of taking, or “buying” by credits, the older cars out of the transportation system. I guess it will just have to occur through accidents or old age car “attrition” (a pile of rust).

DJB, hopefully the tax breaks for “ordinary” cars is substantially less than that for the hybrids and hybrid plug-ins. That would allow for some incentive for one to buy the newer technology.

Samie, they are not put out incentives for “electric golf carts”. There will be incentives for small urban electric cars, some of which are the size of golf carts (ref. http://www.hybridcars.com/electric-car, http://www.gemcar.com, http://www.getkurrent.com, http://www.myersmotors.com). And plug-in conversions are in existence now; they’re just not OEM conversion kits. I am sure that Toyota is holding back on the lithium plug-in until both legislation and thorough testing of the lithium batteries is finished. Lithium batteries do not operate like metal halide batteries; they are truly a total different “beast”. Toyota does not want to be replacing batteries under warranty. And my bet is that Chevy Volt will be the first to the market, not Toyota. This could be trouble for Toyota for two reasons. One, Chevy will be doing their best to make this a top quality car so it sells well. Two, if the Chevy Volt price is comparably priced to the future Prius plug-in, it will be strong competition and have the “American Made” draw.