They did it before and crippled our truck fleets with high diesel fuel costs. Can the president help, please

I pray to god.

I agree that natural gas is an important tool for weaning us off of our oil dependence. It is just best used to generate electricity for an electric car than by just burning in the car because you use about half as much if it is used in an efficient co-generation power plant than a lot of distributed vehicles.
Additionally, a solar-thermal power plant can easily use Natural Gas in the same steam turbine that generates the electricity when the sun is not shining sufficiently.
We will run out of natural gas eventually so it is definitely not a long-term solution to anything.

The lobbyists trying to roll the taxpayer yet again.

If this isn’t proof that money buys influence in our supposed democracy then nothing is. We might as well just hand the reins of power directly to the oligarchs now instead of continuing this charade of a democracy. Both parties are completely owned by corporate interests. A pox on them all.

Let’s remove the political/personal grousing from the conversation and
see what we are left with. From day one The Pickens Plan has advocated utilizing “Anything American” to move us toward a green energy economy. Yes, he is heavily invested in natural gas and wind energy but he spent 60 million dollars advertising “Anything American”.

It seemed to me to be an incredible benefit to green energy in general to have someone step up and invest that kind of money into public awareness. Let’s face it, in a free market system someone is going to be making a ton of money off any type of energy (wind, solar, geothermal included) and it is the people who stand to make the most who will be the most vocal champions of that particular type of energy.

General Motors does make CNG vehicles and has been selling them in Europe and South America for years. Last year Hugo Chavez, President of Venezuela ordered 60,000 of them. Venezuela, Iran and Brazil are all way ahead of us on alternative vehicle fuels. If the oil producing nations switch to CNG fuel they have more oil to sell to us. They obviously understand the value of energy independence for their economies and their national security.

See this paper from the Center For American Progress on oil and
national security: http://bit.ly/8Wnkhl

If you research a bit further you will see that the CAP agrees
wholeheartedly with the idea of natural gas as a crucial addition to
our transition to a green energy economy. In addition I was at the
conference earlier this year where Boone Pickens, Al Gore, Bill
Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and others were seated around a
table and all agreed that natural gas was the only viable choice to
move heavy trucks off of imported oil and that it should play a
significant role in our energy future.

Another way in which natural gas can lead us into a clean energy
economy is by serving as a bridge to ultra clean hydrogen fuel. India is currently mixing up to 18% hydrogen into the natural gas stream there to be used as a vehicle fuel. When done like that there is no special storage and distribution network necessary for the hydrogen fuel.

Solid Oxide Fuel Cells can also run on natural gas or a combination of natural gas and hydrogen. Internal combustion engines are only around 30% efficient in converting the energy released by burning fuel into usable energy. Fuel cells are 90% efficient and so using natural gas fuel cells would cut pollution by 60% and increase mileage by a similar percentage. Add in an additional 18% reduction in CO2 emissions if hydrogen is in the natural gas stream and we end up with 78% of our total CO2 emissions being eliminated through building on our existing natural gas infrastructure. That is more than enough to easily meet the Kyoto Protocols and very cheap in comparison to any other alternative.

Natural gas is the only fuel I know of than can serve as a viable
bridge to a hydrogen economy using the existing infrastructure as a
starting point. During the transition both internal combustion engines and fuel cell vehicles could run off the same fuel so one network would serve everyone during the transition.

Last time I checked, all Hybrid cars run on gasoline. Not that they have to, but they do. And, last time I checked, there IS a CNG car in Dealer Showrooms — the Honda GX has been there since 2006 MY and has been produced since 1998. They don’t make a lot of them, and don’t advertise them, but they’re there. I have 3 and they’re great.

Not enough natural gas? There are oceans of this stuff in Canada, the US, and more …

It’s just a part of the puzzle. We need to get on with fuel cells, natural gas vehicles as a bridge with hybrids.

The Toyota Camry provided a natural gas / electric hybrid. Seems like a smart plan.

Pickens is correct

CNG, the great counter example to rapid charging stations or hydrogen fuel stations: readily available, no foreign imports, cleaner burning than gas, etc. I remember 21 years ago I saw a duel fuel gas and CNG car. CNG cars were the cars of the future.

I guess they still are.

Save the Greenbacks,
I wish I had more of the information that allows you to be so confident that our planet isn’t heating up because of greenhouse gas emissions but, unfortunately, everything I’ve seen points to the contrary. It is too bad that that windbag, moron Gore was the first one anyone listened to about it since he blew his credibility with his Internet invention claims.
Oh well, I definitely agree with you that we’ve got to become independent of oil either way as it is going to run out eventually and most of it is controlled by people who hate us, even today.

Some of you have not been paying attention to the Pickens Plan. Pickens is NOT pushing CGN for autos. He is *primarily* pushing CGN for semi rigs/18-wheelers. Try working the numbers for a EV semi hauling a full load. It won’t work.

I, on the other hand, do like the idea of a EREV w/a CGN range extending generator. But that is just me musing, not Pickens talking.

John K

In interviews last year, Pickens made his intentions to push CNG/LNG into passenger vehicle markets, unless things have changed this time around, he still has the same intentions, as he has not ruled out this option. So the point is that it is not out of the reach for Pickens and others to extend this lucrative business proposal to passenger vehicles as the second part of their strategy. Eg. forcing automakers to add at least 1 natural gas vehicle to their yearly lineup of vehicles. Start small, then expand as we have seen with the ridiculous legislation from the ethanol crowd. So I don’t disagree with you but look closer at the plan and you will see the flexibility into passenger vehicles and hence my concern that this will not be much different from our current petroleum distribution/market and our current security problems with petro in the long-term.

The terror card is more than irresponsible. For starters Xcel Energy, for one, is showing dramatic reduction in electricity demand (see SEC K-10 numbers). Truth is the existing grid is horribly inefficient. Shipping wind power, or any power, as we do is simply mindless. To NOT rethink now would be like keeping horses instead of moving into “horseless carriages”. If we are to steward America’s resources each region of the country will need to identify what THEY each can produce locally—then also share regionally. The concept we currently use of a “Central Station” factory (having one massive energy plant; i.e. nuclear, wind or coal), then maximize production, to only ship far distantances is completely backwards. In future we’ll see communities everywhere “powering up”-manufacturing power and distributing it locally AND regionally. Think thousands of smaller “stations” everywhere. Jobs would flourish and it’ll almost eliminate terrorism threat to grid. No, this argument is NOT about wind, nor gas, – it’s about market share & transmission. Those who wise enough to see quickly realize the “profit barons” are simply rushing to hold future generations captive to endless profit and control–trying to invent a profitable model at ANY cost using various industries to support the NEED. Instead, it’s time for “smart grids” using the existing transmission system. The energy paradigm is shifting and they’d rather not discuss it. Time to partner with the actual “smart” consumer & allow ratepayers to in fact participate with a far better investment. There’s an idea? Heaven forbid! Let everyone profit from American ingenuity–not just the few? And as if the American household (and economy) couldn’t use a break – not just an enormous rate hike…. bringing profits for T-Bone and the big transmission builders. And would ITC Holdings in Novi Michigan and Xcel Energy like to dance with Pickens? You do the math! All too laughable. Get that issued solved and we will be well on the way to electric cars. See: http://pecva.org/anx/index.cfm/1,516,2263,-1,html

Pickens is old enough he may be pushing natural gas for a combination of patriotic, environmental, and altruistic rather than just financial reasons. I believe he’s wise enough to see the correct direction our country needs to go. I also suspect we need to transport some energy by pipeline rather than by electrical grid for a combination of cost, security, environmental, anti-monopoly, free-market, and efficiency reasons.
We also have more natural gas available now and more can be produced due to new technology, and natural gas is better than coal or oil because it has less carbon and more hydrogen in it’s chemistry, so it’s relatively better for the environment.

“Foreboding music and cryptic Arabic characters associate a vague terrorist threat”? I don’t think so. He says that we’re exporting billions of dollars to buy oil, “much of it from countries that don’t like us.” The problem is bigger than just terrorists and terrorists organizations.

The ultimate problem is that we are *dependent* on foreign sources of energy. If our suppliers don’t like our foreign or domestic policies, they can strangle our economy. Sure, if they overplay their hand that can boomerang back to hit them w/a worldwide depression — as has happened — driving down both demand and prices. But once we recover, if we don’t start down the road to independence, the noose is still around our necks, and OPEC (Venezuela/Russia/whoever) will be more than happy to tighten it once again.

Different note: w/a more compact Li ion battery pack, I wonder if a hybrid CNG Honda Civic GX possible? Or, since we’re dreaming, a Chevy Volt w/a EEStor ultracap and CGN powered generator?

Good idea John K.

If you use a CNG generator as a way to power the electricity that is fine, though if possible I would rather see LNG as the fuel for the generator. What I have reservations about is using CNG as a primary fuel for lightweight passenger vehicles. If you develop electrical systems that allows different inputs into it either as a generator or as a secondary energy to fuel battery drive that is the point to diversify energy use and allow for innovation and advancements from these secondary inputs. Also with some types of natural gas you need pipe infrastructure. We would need to spend billions on that as taxpayers and to justify the costs lobbyist along with Congress would try get auto manufactures to ramp up natural gas powered vehicles.

I also doubt that Pickens can gain enough government support to minimize the first wave of EV’s. What they can do is minimize the role of government in long-term funding or mandates for EV’s. What others want to do is minimize the 3rd or 4th generation of EV’s which could have mass public appeal and reduce lobbying interests for natural gas in cars, E85, offshore drilling, ect… If incentives were in place for distributing liquid natural gas and subsidies for new Semi’s that use LNG in the next energy bill or transportation bill, I see no need for Pickens and his investors to scare people.