Comments on: Making Plug-in Hybrid Comparisons

By: John Kerr

John Kerr — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 21:10:59 +0000

Great comments. Glad I found this site.

@Van -- Very helpful annalyis, thanks.

"TOTAL transportation dollars spent per year" averaged over a ten year period is a great way of looking at things.

By: Capt. Concernicus

Capt. Concernicus — Wed, 26 Oct 2011 12:47:00 +0000

The Volt is an expensive way to try and save some money at the pump. It's quality is questionable and it's fit and finish is typical of any other Chevy out there now. In other words...mediocre.

Here's the other thing. It ONLY seats FOUR people. That's right FOUR people. And from past articles and posts from some people on here that seems to be a deal breaker. Yet only seating four people with the Chevy Volt it's quite alright. I sense some hypocrisy or it might just be import hating.

By: BigDaddy

BigDaddy — Tue, 25 Oct 2011 20:59:01 +0000

I’ve driven my Volt for almost 6 weeks now. A total of ~1050 miles. ~5% in “gas mode”. I average between 45 and 48 miles per charge. I’m averaging ~34mpg in “gas mode” in the city and 49mpg in “gas mode” on the highway. As has been said before it does make driving fun again. The one thing that most people don’t take into account when talking about the price is that with the options you get on it and the quality of build it has more of a luxury feel than any other electric or hybrid that I’ve seen.

By: testing12

testing12 — Mon, 24 Oct 2011 19:55:31 +0000

That’s an informative study! And I agree that it would be interesting to see more vehicles in this comparison.

By: Gary

Gary — Mon, 24 Oct 2011 19:48:33 +0000

Good article.
In the end it depends a lot on how your usage.

For us,
An into town and back is just over 15 miles round trip and we do that nearly daily. About 5K miles a year. All electric in both cars.

The rest of our driving tends to be long highway drives (the grandkids are 1200 miles away). This is about 10K miles per year.

So, the two important numbers for me are the all electric range, AND the mpg after you are fully on gasoline -- for us, the 2nd number is really the most important since 2/3rd of our driving is on gasoline. I suspect a lot of people are in this postion.

You gave the first number but not the 2nd.
From what I've heard (but not fully confirmed), the Prius plugin hybrid takes only a small hit on the 50 mpg the regular version of the hybrid gets when in all gas mode -- this is good. I've heard that the Volt mpg when fully on gas is not great -- in the 30's? Anyone know for sure? This (to me) is very bad.

Gary

By: Frank Falcone

Frank Falcone — Mon, 24 Oct 2011 14:27:14 +0000

One thing I think should be noted is that the Prius EV range is not really EV range but charge depleting range. It has a limited EV speed and requires the engine to assist for anything over very mild acceleration. Here in SoCal the Prius would be running its engine on every hill and every mile on the highway where the volt would be in EV only mode.

As a result, the real distance required for the Prius to catch up to the Volt's fuel consumption is probably another 10-15 miles out.

Good use of data though, it's about time we start putting some math to these questions.

One other thing needs to be mentioned when comparing the Prius to the Volt. The Prius has budget fit and finish. The Volt has fit and finish typical of other $30-$40k vehicles. If you are in the market for a 30-40K vehicle, you just aren't going to look at a slow, poor handling, Echo like fit and finish Prius. On the flip side, if you can't afford a $30-$40k car, you aren't going to test drive the Volt any more than you would any other car out of your price range (unless just for fun). From this standpoint, the Volt and Prius are really an apples to oranges comparison.

Frank

By: MrEnergyCzar

MrEnergyCzar — Mon, 24 Oct 2011 00:00:17 +0000

I've driven 1,200 miles with my Volt using 1 gallon by just charging at home. Yes, the Prius wins if you drive 75 miles between charges which most people don't do... The instant torque on the Volt makes driving fun again.

MrEnergyCzar

By: Bonaire

Bonaire — Sun, 23 Oct 2011 13:08:59 +0000

It’s definitely not fair to say this without knowing the technology fully.

By: Bonaire

Bonaire — Sun, 23 Oct 2011 13:06:27 +0000

Cost is debatable based on extra rebates per-state. Example is PA has a state rebate of $3500 for the Volt and $1000 for the PiP (Under 10kWh battery cap.) I can be in a Volt for under $29K after 7500 + 3500 off the base price of $39995 and have been offered $500 under MSRP already from a local dealer. If I had a GM Card earnings, I could pull another 1K off that price. Some states like Colorado offer $6K rebates on top of the federal.

Total price to the owner is based on a lot of factors, including the various incentives and those incentive amounts based on the battery size. I do think the usable battery capacity is key to those incentives and the Volt “eeked by” these 10K incentive points. Federal 7500 is based on the Volt’s 16K capacity which is not all usable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_incentives_for_plug-in_electric_vehicles

By: Bonaire

Bonaire — Sun, 23 Oct 2011 13:00:31 +0000

The difference is Volt has a 10.4 kWh use of 16 kWh battery. Out of 10.4 kWh, summertime drivers get nearly 45, sometimes more. PiP is stated to get 13-15. PiP must be using more of the capacity discharge range of the Lithium pack. The full charge cycle, touted by Tesla owners, is an issue with such small packs in that after 1000+ full cycle charges, which could happen in 2 years if you plug in 1.5 times per day, the Lithium pack on a car that allows the full capacity range to be used (per-cell voltage of 4.2v down to 3.0v) will have a lower life than one that is kept in a sweet-spot band of 3.3v to 3.9v. We have yet to see if the PiP will need battery replacement early if they do happen to use the full amount of the capacity of the battery set. The price of that replacement set should be less than the Volt, of course. With the commoditization of Lithium batteries, it should be less than $2K (guessing) when it's time to replace the PiP batteries.

I was speaking to an Enginer PIHV conversion system owner this past September and he thought the Volt may have issues with the full cycles it would go through to reach 100K miles - 2800 if you always drove in CD-mode and recharged every 35 miles. Could the PiP small pack, plugged in twice-daily, offer a long-life? If not, then the replacement pack prices have to be something acceptable. There were a lot of complaints regarding the NiMH pack replacement costs for regular Prius over the years.

PIHV futures will require ongoing lowering of the replacement pack costs through cost-of scale. A local Chevy dealer was downplaying costs of the Volt battery (ie. to get a sale) to me a few weeks ago saying that by the time the pack needs replacement, it would be $3K. We have no idea what it will cost but don't let salesmen convince you of future parts prices without feedback from their HQ directly.