Comments on: IBM Welcomes Japanese Partners to Potentially World-Changing 'Battery 500' Project

By: Deb

Deb — Thu, 26 Apr 2012 02:43:12 +0000

Hi all--
I have about 15,000 miles on my Tesla roadster, and I will admit to having extreme range anxiety the first time I took it on a 300 mile trip. But we planned a stop at an RV park along the way, had lunch and took a nap while the car was recharging (at 30 amps, 240 volts), and got to our destination in plenty of time. Climbing over a major mountain pass had me nearly in a panic but traveling down the other side put a whole bunch of miles back into the battery.

Now, I rarely have range anxiety. We don't use the roadster to travel across country, but we have two cars in our family. We use the other one for long trips and the Tesla for everyday driving. Now that we've had it a while, I never get range anxiety. While we own two different mobile charger connections (110V, and 240V), we hardly ever carry either one of them unless we're making a major trip. 200 miles is WAY more range than I need for ordinary use.

By: Deb

Deb — Thu, 26 Apr 2012 02:38:13 +0000

By: FamilyGuy

FamilyGuy — Mon, 23 Apr 2012 13:49:55 +0000

It's not the range, it's the recharge time and lack of locations.

I make trips where I need to stop for gas all of the time. That only takes a few minutes, not a few hours. Also, gas stations are every where. I'll take 300 miles instead of 500 miles if I can get recharge the battery in a few minutes and can do so in more places.

By: Capt. Concernicus

Capt. Concernicus — Mon, 23 Apr 2012 12:17:01 +0000

Am I missing something here? It's saying up to 500 miles on a charge. How's it getting recharged? Are vehicles equipped with these batteries being plugged into a 120V or 240V outlet? How long does it take to recharge one of these batteries?

People keep mentioning price as the top concern for EV's. I don't think it's the biggest concern. I think it's Range Anxiety, Length of Recharge Time, Lack of Charging Stations then Price.

Anyway, the IBM website didn't address how long it takes to recharge the batteries and that's a big concern also.

By: Collin Burnell

Collin Burnell — Mon, 23 Apr 2012 03:53:47 +0000

Wow! Excellent discussion! I have to admit, I am experiencing Range Anxiety and I haven't purchased an EV yet. I am passionate about being a part of the adoption of pure EV's but 75 miles on a charge would make life challenging. I believe for me a more fuel efficient hybrid (I have a Nissan Altima Hybrid now) will most likely be what I end up buying.

I think you are all correct! More energy density / lighter weight AND reduction in cost will both play major roles in the adoption of EV's. I believe that simply doubling the range of EV's to 140-170 miles would bring a lot more of us 'on board'.

We are getting there and we have made amazing strides in battery technology. I have never been more optimistic than I am now!

By: Van

Van — Sat, 21 Apr 2012 19:47:48 +0000

Hi Hobie, can you not read, I said NOW, leaving the giant step for later. Why question my motives rather than address my view that we need EV’s with 120 mile range rain or shine. I believe my view will result in more quickly shifting away from fossil fuel than waiting for the perfect. NMC batteries are on the drawing boards of car makers now.

By: Hobie McCat

Hobie McCat — Sat, 21 Apr 2012 17:19:25 +0000

Van,

You think the idea of needing a 500 mile range vehicle is wrong????? Why...do you work for Chevron or BP????

By: Hobie McCat

Hobie McCat — Sat, 21 Apr 2012 17:15:08 +0000

Paul,

You have never been stranded, because you have no life beyond Albuquerque...and if you do, you aren't using your 2009 ZENN to get there. Over 35% of household have children...and those children need to go to sports events, recitals, sleep overs, birthday parties, class trips, etc and that takes a lot of miles on the road.

Another 40% are empty Nesters and have extended family or are Grand Parents. Families with kids, either in or out of the home have travel needs and it's always been the family and their car needs that have driven Auto sales...The explosion of the MiniVan in the 80's and 90's was driven by households with children. When mini-vans became a maligned stereotype for the "soccer mom", the trend switched to more trendy and masculine SUV's, today's cross-overs and such. I and over 95% of my friends are empty nesters, but we still travel far and wide to visit our children. Range Anxiety is not only very, very real...if not addressed, this WILL BE the death of the electric vehicle...I guarantee and would bet my life on that.

The "push" by IBM however doesn't seem to be very sincere. Come-on...2030? Exponential advances in technology has been occurring at a rapid pace in just about every industry except the Auto industry and fuel economy for generations. We have mini computers (smart phones) that talk back to us that we can slip in our pants pockets, but we can't seem to develop a car that gets over 50MPH? The 1908 Model T's got better gas mileage (25MPG) than a majority of cars on the road today.

Yes...I think IBM is definitely seeking a new revenue source...but it has nothing to do with this battery...The revenue source is the big billion dollar pay-off they are getting by keeping this technology off the market.

By: Ramon Leigh

Ramon Leigh — Sat, 21 Apr 2012 16:27:13 +0000

IBM is totally misunderstanding the problem if they imagine that energy density is the obstacle. PRICE is the obstacle and until they can promise a battery 5 to 10 times cheaper, whatever they produce, regardless of its energy density, has little value. I have even heard crazy and nonsensical claims that a battery’s density must equal that of gasoline to be a successful competitor – the argument stupidly ignores all the extra weight required by a gas powered vehicle (engine, tranny, fuel system, exhaust system, etc.) to burn that “low density energy source.” Current li ion batteries are light enough – Tesla with its 320 mile range (and that could be extended if one wanted to pay for it) and recharge time of under 1 hour, demonstrates that even on a trip, an electric won’t appreciably slow you down. 75 to 100 mile ranged vehicles are useful to relatively few – they cost way too much for being a car that cannot satisfy user demands. They can only exist as a second car for those with a fair amount of cash and who can deceive themselves into believing that they would be making a difference.

By: Van

Van — Sat, 21 Apr 2012 15:16:41 +0000

I think the idea of needing a 500 mile range now is wrong. But we definitely need a real world range in excess of 120 miles, rain or shine.

Thus a 42 KWh usable storage capacity (3.6 miles per kwh x 42 = 150 mile range) seems about right. Currently EV cost about $35,000 (i.e. the Leaf) and have a range of about 75 miles) With a usable storage of say 24 KWh, (86 mile range) we can guess at the battery cost as about $15,000 or about $600 per KWh. Hence we need battery cost to come down to about $350 per KWh. And then we could market EV's as city cars, with ample range for a run to the mall, park, airport or cafe, as well as back and forth to work.

I think such batteries are going to hit the market for the 2015 model year. Time will tell.