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	<title>Comments on: As Government Decisions Loom, Ethanol Fights for its Life</title>
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	<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/government-decisions-loom-ethanol-fights-its-life-28134/</link>
	<description>Auto alternatives for the 21st century</description>
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		<title>By: Mike Massey</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/government-decisions-loom-ethanol-fights-its-life-28134/#comment-26005</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Massey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2010 02:06:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=7164#comment-26005</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Our country is very good at growing corn.  We Americans produce 2.8 gal per corn bushel and 3.2 gallons of milk from the distillers grain per bushel after ethanol production.  God forgive those who bad mouth our American economy, corn ethanol, and have chosen to believe in Arab controlled Big Oil company high paid oil lobbyists who stuff the pockets of both politicians and academic researchers.  If you all come to the farm and just see what we can do on the farm you would be amazed.  But your all disconnected to nature and have no understanding of what makes America tick.  I can&#039;t blame you, your ignorant.  The grain portion of corn is only half of the energy collected by the corn plant.  Corn stubble can be made into ethanol - they call it cellulosic ethanol.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We need a level playing field where the costs per btu of oil is matched with the costs per btu of the entire corn plant.  You will find that corn wins everytime unless the cost of the U.S. military is stationed in Iowa protecting corn fields.  You just cannot beat corn.  The oil industry fears corn ethanol and will successfully kill it as did JD Rockefellar did with the support of Prohibition.  I think Americans are smarter than the anti-ethanol brigade.  But time will tell.  Everytime Americans diss their farmers they get in heaps of trouble.  And now is the time for Americans to demand choice - choice at the pump.  Place a blender pump at all fuel stations and require e-85 compatible vehicles and let Americans decide their own fate.  Lets see who wins.  Drop all subsidies on both oil and ethanol and lets see who wins.  Corn everytime and Big Oil knows it.  Big Oil will fight farmers until the end of time.  We need a Prohibition of crude oil and then things will turn around.  What is fair is fair.  Time to turn off oil like they did with ethanol during Prohibition.  We&#039;ll adapt just like we did without ethanol in the 20&#039;s.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our country is very good at growing corn.  We Americans produce 2.8 gal per corn bushel and 3.2 gallons of milk from the distillers grain per bushel after ethanol production.  God forgive those who bad mouth our American economy, corn ethanol, and have chosen to believe in Arab controlled Big Oil company high paid oil lobbyists who stuff the pockets of both politicians and academic researchers.  If you all come to the farm and just see what we can do on the farm you would be amazed.  But your all disconnected to nature and have no understanding of what makes America tick.  I can&#8217;t blame you, your ignorant.  The grain portion of corn is only half of the energy collected by the corn plant.  Corn stubble can be made into ethanol &#8211; they call it cellulosic ethanol.</p>
<p>We need a level playing field where the costs per btu of oil is matched with the costs per btu of the entire corn plant.  You will find that corn wins everytime unless the cost of the U.S. military is stationed in Iowa protecting corn fields.  You just cannot beat corn.  The oil industry fears corn ethanol and will successfully kill it as did JD Rockefellar did with the support of Prohibition.  I think Americans are smarter than the anti-ethanol brigade.  But time will tell.  Everytime Americans diss their farmers they get in heaps of trouble.  And now is the time for Americans to demand choice &#8211; choice at the pump.  Place a blender pump at all fuel stations and require e-85 compatible vehicles and let Americans decide their own fate.  Lets see who wins.  Drop all subsidies on both oil and ethanol and lets see who wins.  Corn everytime and Big Oil knows it.  Big Oil will fight farmers until the end of time.  We need a Prohibition of crude oil and then things will turn around.  What is fair is fair.  Time to turn off oil like they did with ethanol during Prohibition.  We&#8217;ll adapt just like we did without ethanol in the 20&#8242;s.</p>
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		<title>By: Nasdram</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/government-decisions-loom-ethanol-fights-its-life-28134/#comment-26004</link>
		<dc:creator>Nasdram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jun 2010 13:41:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=7164#comment-26004</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[From what i could find in terms of studies on the energy balance of generating ethanol from corn, there is one study that is the source of the  Ethanol Production Using Corn, Switchgrass, and Wood; Biodiesel Production Using Soybean and Sunflower David Pimentel and Tad W. Patzek Natural Resources Research, Vol. 14, No. 1, March 2005 doi:10.1007/s11053-005-4679-8&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But this study relies on certain assumptions. For example a complete replacement of gasoline by corn ethanol which would mean byproducts cannot be absorbed by the market.&lt;br /&gt;
to quote a Science article:&lt;br /&gt;
&quot;Two of the studies stand out from the others&lt;br /&gt;
because they report negative net energy values&lt;br /&gt;
and imply relatively high GHG emissions and&lt;br /&gt;
petroleum inputs (11, 12). The close evaluation&lt;br /&gt;
required to replicate the net energy results showed&lt;br /&gt;
that these two studies also stand apart from the&lt;br /&gt;
others by incorrectly assuming that ethanol&lt;br /&gt;
coproducts (materials inevitably generated when&lt;br /&gt;
ethanol is made, such as dried distiller grains with&lt;br /&gt;
solubles, corn gluten feed, and corn oil) should&lt;br /&gt;
not be credited with any of the input energy and&lt;br /&gt;
by including some input data that are old and&lt;br /&gt;
unrepresentative of current processes, or so&lt;br /&gt;
poorly documented that their quality cannot be&lt;br /&gt;
evaluated (tables S2 and S3). &quot;&lt;br /&gt;
http://rael.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/EBAMM/FarrellEthanolScience012706.pdf&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The above article clearly shows that both GHG and petroleum used are less, a fair amount less in the case of petroleum used.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So unless you can show a different study that uses right assumptions about the energy balance, i would say that view is antiquated. &lt;br /&gt;
If this is worth the subsidies is another discussion but at least one should do away with &quot;corn ethanol has a negative energy balance&quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I do agree that we should go forward to second and third generation biofuels and those only as a transition. But at the moment, corn ethanol is a viable alternative. In countries with higher gas taxes (maybe a way for the US as well?) it can also survive without subsidizing it. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From what i could find in terms of studies on the energy balance of generating ethanol from corn, there is one study that is the source of the  Ethanol Production Using Corn, Switchgrass, and Wood; Biodiesel Production Using Soybean and Sunflower David Pimentel and Tad W. Patzek Natural Resources Research, Vol. 14, No. 1, March 2005 doi:10.1007/s11053-005-4679-8</p>
<p>But this study relies on certain assumptions. For example a complete replacement of gasoline by corn ethanol which would mean byproducts cannot be absorbed by the market.<br />
to quote a Science article:<br />
&#8220;Two of the studies stand out from the others<br />
because they report negative net energy values<br />
and imply relatively high GHG emissions and<br />
petroleum inputs (11, 12). The close evaluation<br />
required to replicate the net energy results showed<br />
that these two studies also stand apart from the<br />
others by incorrectly assuming that ethanol<br />
coproducts (materials inevitably generated when<br />
ethanol is made, such as dried distiller grains with<br />
solubles, corn gluten feed, and corn oil) should<br />
not be credited with any of the input energy and<br />
by including some input data that are old and<br />
unrepresentative of current processes, or so<br />
poorly documented that their quality cannot be<br />
evaluated (tables S2 and S3). &#8220;<br />
<a href="http://rael.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/EBAMM/FarrellEthanolScience012706.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://rael.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/EBAMM/FarrellEthanolScience012706.pdf</a></p>
<p>The above article clearly shows that both GHG and petroleum used are less, a fair amount less in the case of petroleum used.</p>
<p>So unless you can show a different study that uses right assumptions about the energy balance, i would say that view is antiquated. <br />
If this is worth the subsidies is another discussion but at least one should do away with &#8220;corn ethanol has a negative energy balance&#8221;.</p>
<p>I do agree that we should go forward to second and third generation biofuels and those only as a transition. But at the moment, corn ethanol is a viable alternative. In countries with higher gas taxes (maybe a way for the US as well?) it can also survive without subsidizing it. </p>
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		<title>By: Samie</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/government-decisions-loom-ethanol-fights-its-life-28134/#comment-26003</link>
		<dc:creator>Samie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jun 2010 13:05:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=7164#comment-26003</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Reading most of the comments above, I clearly think people take a personal individualistic approach in dreaming up non-realities or expectations when it comes to imports, futures markets, &amp; politics of ethonal.  Another fault is that people will want to do anything to move away from our petroleum based economy, they fail to see the hidden problems or cost associated with some fuel schemes.  This is dangerous and not smart that is without think of the long-term consequences.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To expand ethanol, all tariffs need to be eliminated.  Cheaper questionable farming practices from other countries will have unintended consequences &amp; at some point needs to flood the U.S. ethanol market.  Markets would need a fuel flex system and any sustainable, or organic practices would need to be eliminated to reduce price.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ethanol would need to move away from land based crops.  Algae or some other form that requires less land needs to be produced (that is on a mass scale).  This is where people fail to connect the dots with oil because land crops for fuel if expanded on a mass scale will only produce geopolitical problems, possible authoritative governments, environmental problems, oppressed women rights, price shocks from weather patterns, and expensive military &amp; diplomacy operations to secure the fuel.  Oh does that sound somewhat familiar? &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Look, be realistic about fuel schemes it would be one thing to say Walmart should have 90% of their products produced and made in the U.S. but we all know that&#039;s a joke.  Instead of creating new problems just to try to solve the petro one lets be smart and think long-term instead of reacting to the events of the day.....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reading most of the comments above, I clearly think people take a personal individualistic approach in dreaming up non-realities or expectations when it comes to imports, futures markets, &#038; politics of ethonal.  Another fault is that people will want to do anything to move away from our petroleum based economy, they fail to see the hidden problems or cost associated with some fuel schemes.  This is dangerous and not smart that is without think of the long-term consequences.  </p>
<p>To expand ethanol, all tariffs need to be eliminated.  Cheaper questionable farming practices from other countries will have unintended consequences &#038; at some point needs to flood the U.S. ethanol market.  Markets would need a fuel flex system and any sustainable, or organic practices would need to be eliminated to reduce price.  </p>
<p>Ethanol would need to move away from land based crops.  Algae or some other form that requires less land needs to be produced (that is on a mass scale).  This is where people fail to connect the dots with oil because land crops for fuel if expanded on a mass scale will only produce geopolitical problems, possible authoritative governments, environmental problems, oppressed women rights, price shocks from weather patterns, and expensive military &#038; diplomacy operations to secure the fuel.  Oh does that sound somewhat familiar? </p>
<p>Look, be realistic about fuel schemes it would be one thing to say Walmart should have 90% of their products produced and made in the U.S. but we all know that&#8217;s a joke.  Instead of creating new problems just to try to solve the petro one lets be smart and think long-term instead of reacting to the events of the day&#8230;..</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Sukamadek</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/government-decisions-loom-ethanol-fights-its-life-28134/#comment-26002</link>
		<dc:creator>Sukamadek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jun 2010 10:30:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=7164#comment-26002</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ethanol is not necesarrily terrible, but Corn ethanol makes absolutely no sense. It takes as much energy to grow, process and transport as it provides so the more Corn ethanol we make the more dependent we remain on fossil fuels. And the more it costs us. Sugar ethanolo does not have the same problem but we don&#039;t grow sugar so we pretend.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ethanol is not necesarrily terrible, but Corn ethanol makes absolutely no sense. It takes as much energy to grow, process and transport as it provides so the more Corn ethanol we make the more dependent we remain on fossil fuels. And the more it costs us. Sugar ethanolo does not have the same problem but we don&#8217;t grow sugar so we pretend.</p>
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		<title>By: Nasdram</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/government-decisions-loom-ethanol-fights-its-life-28134/#comment-26001</link>
		<dc:creator>Nasdram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jun 2010 06:17:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=7164#comment-26001</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So you want to cut subsides to ethanol. Why not cut those to the oil industry first. &lt;br /&gt;
Sure, it would be great if next year everyone would be driving electric with the electricity from green sources but that is more than utopiean. Without ethanol, the need for oil will no doubt increase. Also, flex fuel is a cheap alternative to gasoline cars that most people can afford. Or we could drill more and more, have more spills and leaks all over the world (spills are very common, but unless they happen near a western country noone cares)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Besides, currently the first plants for secon generation ethanol are opening up lowering the impacts on corn as production is ramped up.&lt;br /&gt;
If price of food is a concern, stop eating beef. That is by far a greater contributor to prices of corn(worldwide, not only US). Also, corn used for ethanol can still be used as feedstock. Maybe farmers could also start to plan on those fields that have gone out of production since the 70&#039;s?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As for subsedise, maybe it would be worthwhile to look up what the US has saved in subsides due to higher corn prices that it pays to corn farmers. sadly i can#t find my source for the numbers anymore.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So you want to cut subsides to ethanol. Why not cut those to the oil industry first. <br />
Sure, it would be great if next year everyone would be driving electric with the electricity from green sources but that is more than utopiean. Without ethanol, the need for oil will no doubt increase. Also, flex fuel is a cheap alternative to gasoline cars that most people can afford. Or we could drill more and more, have more spills and leaks all over the world (spills are very common, but unless they happen near a western country noone cares)</p>
<p>Besides, currently the first plants for secon generation ethanol are opening up lowering the impacts on corn as production is ramped up.<br />
If price of food is a concern, stop eating beef. That is by far a greater contributor to prices of corn(worldwide, not only US). Also, corn used for ethanol can still be used as feedstock. Maybe farmers could also start to plan on those fields that have gone out of production since the 70&#8242;s?</p>
<p>As for subsedise, maybe it would be worthwhile to look up what the US has saved in subsides due to higher corn prices that it pays to corn farmers. sadly i can#t find my source for the numbers anymore.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/government-decisions-loom-ethanol-fights-its-life-28134/#comment-26000</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jun 2010 05:34:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=7164#comment-26000</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d say reduce funding but not eliminate.  just enough to keep research only]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d say reduce funding but not eliminate.  just enough to keep research only</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: DC</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/government-decisions-loom-ethanol-fights-its-life-28134/#comment-25999</link>
		<dc:creator>DC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 16:01:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=7164#comment-25999</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Let ethanol die. All that entire &quot;industry&quot; is, is yet another form of corporate welfare for american agri-giants. Your country cannot afford to(keep!) pursueing non-solutions like ethanol, hydrogen etc. The entire notion of useing the massively wasteful and inefficent industrial FARM system to produce a fuel that itself, is not especially efficent and only marginally less polluting is perverse. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let ethanol die. All that entire &#8220;industry&#8221; is, is yet another form of corporate welfare for american agri-giants. Your country cannot afford to(keep!) pursueing non-solutions like ethanol, hydrogen etc. The entire notion of useing the massively wasteful and inefficent industrial FARM system to produce a fuel that itself, is not especially efficent and only marginally less polluting is perverse. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Bill Sykes</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/government-decisions-loom-ethanol-fights-its-life-28134/#comment-25998</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Sykes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 15:16:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=7164#comment-25998</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ethanol is not a good solution; however, it&#039;s the only viable alternative fuel at the present time.  Corn is not a good feedstock; however, it&#039;s the one that works best presently, and America has the production facilities in place and operating today.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We need to keep ethanol flowing as research progresses for better production, and for better biofuels.  Unfortunately, both (useage &amp; research) require funding in order to get us down the road - pun intended.  The destination is worth the trip.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ethanol is not a good solution; however, it&#8217;s the only viable alternative fuel at the present time.  Corn is not a good feedstock; however, it&#8217;s the one that works best presently, and America has the production facilities in place and operating today.</p>
<p>We need to keep ethanol flowing as research progresses for better production, and for better biofuels.  Unfortunately, both (useage &#038; research) require funding in order to get us down the road &#8211; pun intended.  The destination is worth the trip.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Indymw</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/government-decisions-loom-ethanol-fights-its-life-28134/#comment-25997</link>
		<dc:creator>Indymw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 14:54:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=7164#comment-25997</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am so sick of listening to the anti ethanol crowd. Someday maybe people will get serious about elimination of fossil fuels and quit nitpicking apart the most viable solution we currently have. Ethanol isn&#039;t the best solution but it is the ONLY one that is economically viable right now. The peace and love contingent at the EWG are looking for Utopian solutions to energy creation....most of which are years if not decades away. Meanwhile they are carrying the water for the oil industry by continually bashing ethanol as a reasonable alternative; at least until better alternatives become economically and technically viable. All this hand wringing about subsidies for ethanol.....its ridiculous...how much do they think it costs tax payers to fight wars in the middle east, protect oil shipping lanes, and clean up gigantic oil spills??? There are huge surpluses of corn every year so the feed stock is not a problem, the energy efficiencies get better all the time through innovation, and we have a delivery infrastructure in place....in short it works...could it work better...of course...but that doesn&#039;t mean we should just stop it until something else happens to come along.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am so sick of listening to the anti ethanol crowd. Someday maybe people will get serious about elimination of fossil fuels and quit nitpicking apart the most viable solution we currently have. Ethanol isn&#8217;t the best solution but it is the ONLY one that is economically viable right now. The peace and love contingent at the EWG are looking for Utopian solutions to energy creation&#8230;.most of which are years if not decades away. Meanwhile they are carrying the water for the oil industry by continually bashing ethanol as a reasonable alternative; at least until better alternatives become economically and technically viable. All this hand wringing about subsidies for ethanol&#8230;..its ridiculous&#8230;how much do they think it costs tax payers to fight wars in the middle east, protect oil shipping lanes, and clean up gigantic oil spills??? There are huge surpluses of corn every year so the feed stock is not a problem, the energy efficiencies get better all the time through innovation, and we have a delivery infrastructure in place&#8230;.in short it works&#8230;could it work better&#8230;of course&#8230;but that doesn&#8217;t mean we should just stop it until something else happens to come along.</p>
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		<title>By: John P</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/government-decisions-loom-ethanol-fights-its-life-28134/#comment-25996</link>
		<dc:creator>John P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 13:11:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=7164#comment-25996</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Big oil was subsidized $550 billion dollars in 2009 via tax breaks and credits.  Exxon Mobile didn&#039;t pay a single cent in taxes.....  &lt;br /&gt;
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Big oil was subsidized $550 billion dollars in 2009 via tax breaks and credits.  Exxon Mobile didn&#8217;t pay a single cent in taxes&#8230;..  </p>
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