Winter Driving in Honda Civic Hybrid

first, if you guys are like california you have "winter blend gas" going on. i don't understand it but for several years (even before my hybrid) i saw a drop in total miles per tank between summer & winter. i thought for a while this was brand related (mobil or arco or whoever) but eventually saw the summer-winter blrnd switch across all brands of gas. it occured once coincident with me getting an oil change & tune up which really made me wonder what was going on...

i don't understand how a worse mileage blend of gas can somehow be better for us. anyone know the details?

for the econo button i only see it "off" by my choice or by the use of the defroster. i guess there is a law somewhere that can not let the defroster air be disrupted by stop & go like the usual hybrid setting.

see ya

this wintering gas issue is fascinating. as are jeff's comments that below 60 degrees all engines underperform.... That sounds like pretty poor performance across the boards. I would understand it it were below 32 f.

why is this the case. seems shocking that you can buy a $12 insulated lunch bag that controls temperatures for hours, but car makers can't hold performance below 60 degrees?

Will blocking the radiator help winter fuel economy? I'm sure Honda disapproves, but is there a recommended way to block it, without damaging the radiator or the engine?

Some reasons I read about the Temperature issue causing a drop in economy are:

Cold engine is less efficient. Cold weather causes longer warmup times.

More rolling resistance from your tires.

Cold air is denser, causing a higher coefficient of drag.

Last thing car designer said was optimium air temp. for best fuel/air mix was about 60F.

Think this all was in either MotorTrend or Car and driver in the last couple months.

How does the HCH get worse mileage than the regular civic? I would be at the dealership asking why I paid $2000 premium for a hybrid?

Alot of people are getting a rude awaking when winter roles around. They are finding out the overly optimistic EPA mileage numbers are not atainable in the winter.

Hybrids are great in warm climates and city driving, but they don't live up to the mileage claims in other real world conditions.

Previously I drove a VW Jetta TDI (turbodiesel)
that returned 50mpg highway year round.
Now I', driving the Passat TDi it's rated at 38mpg high, but I'm getting more like 40-42mpg @ 70mph.
Diesels are a proven, long lasting car with a minium premium for great economy and power.

They have a database over at greenhybrid dot com that shows the current average from 60 HCH's to be at 47MPG, 22 Insight owners average 63MPG, and 96 Prius owners average 48MPG.

8 days ago I just filled 11 gallons of fuel in my HCH. My fuel is $.23 cheaper / gallon than diesel, easier to find and I achieved a calculated tank of 59MPG.

I've had my HCH for about 14 months now. I was getting a lot of bragging out my mileage until my first 7,000 mile oil change, tire rotation. Now I get 43-44mpg instead of average 49mpg. I am due for another oil change and the dealer agreed that something is wrong! Last winter which was fairly cold in a consistent way, unlike this winter, I was getting the better mileage and that was while the car was breaking in and I was learning how to do the hybrid driving technique!

So, I am convinced that in my case something is wrong (please please please!). Otherwise I will be forced to acknowledge that I am really just a do-gooder instead of a cheapskate!

Another thing to consider is the type of oil that was used in the oil change. If it is different than what was used earlier, then that might be the cause of the mileage drop as well.

One thing to keep in mind is that all cars get worse gas mileage in the winter. I have always kept track of my cars's gas mileage and have noticed anywhere from 5% to 10% drop in winter (Dayton, Cleveland, Ohio). (I don't have any data yet on my '05 Prius, which I hope to pick up in 10 days)

The winter drop is more noticeable on a hybrid vehicle because your gas mileage is so much better. Few people worry about an SUV dropping from 20 to 18 mpg in the winter, but a drop from 50 to 45 mpg is something we swear over.

Another possibility is those of us who are more conscious of saving energy are more likely to notice even a little drop.

Rest assured, everbody's vehicle is getting worse gas mileage in the winter time...so our payback is still positive.

I live in the Great White North (ie Canada) and I'm interested in going hybrid.

In addidtion to gasoline / internal combustion efficiency issues, I have concerns about battery efficiency in colder climates that have average winter temps of 0 deg Celsius or lower (thats 32 deg F for you guys south of the 49th parallel).

Is there hybrid performance data available for cold / extreme cold conditions?

I just added about 8 lbs to each tire to bring them up to 33 lbs each (they were down to 25 lbs due to the cold weather), and now I am getting around 43 MPG. Much better! I never knew tire pressure made such a difference.

Now Springtime holds that much more excitement -- warm weather, and I get back my right to brag about my 51 MPG!!!

ps-- the manual says that the auto-stop does not function when a thermometer in the dashboard reads 32 fahrenheit. The thermometer is outside the car, but I bet having the car warmed up can tip the scales on this reading so you can get it to shut off if it is, say, 15-20 degrees outside.

Doug,

I've heard the same thing about the HCH. I'll be going in for my 1st scheduled oil change at 5K in about a month or so.

Rumor tells me that my MPG will go up after this change but I'm anxious to find out myself. Currently I have check my tire pressure because the harsh cold weather is killing my MPG right now.

Only getting between 34 - 38, and that was an improvmnent over past months in the cold weather for me.

"Regular" oil would mean over the counter Penzoil or similar petro-based 10W-30 oil. The HCH is supposed to use 5W-20 if I recall correctly. Still petro based (rather than synthetic) but more expensive than 10W-30.

For best protection in cold climates, you should bring your own oil, and I would suggest Mobil 1 0W-20. That's what I use in my Civic. It's about $5/quart and you'll need around 4 quarts or so.

I have owned my 04 Civic Hybrid since Feb 04. I have also noticed a decrease of mileage during the winter. I have done some thinking, and here is what I have determeined.

-The engine will run on all 4 cylinders until it is fully heated up. Because it is colder outside, this will take longer and so more fuel is wasted. As I believe it says in the manual, the engine will shut off cylinders depending on the current throttle/load and engine temp., so even if you are cruising at 55, all 4 cylinders will continue to operate until full temperature is acheived. Try and avoid short trips in the cold.

-The econ feature isn't supposed to work when the outside temp is below freezing, so no auto-off in the cold means a huge decrease in overall gas mileage. I went from getting 48mpg in the fall, to 38mpg during the coldest parts of the winter.

-Check you tire pressure. I live in Chicago, and on the my first full gas tank in cold weather I got a miserable 33mpg. The culprit? The temperature change caused all my tires to lose about 5psi. My next tank's mileage increased to 37mpg.

-The initial start-up/idle is killer. Don't be stingy though! Although idling absolutly destroys your average mpg, it is no excuse to not let your engine warm up. Remember that the rule of thumb is to let your engine run for a minimum of 30 seconds in warm weather, and at least 60 seconds in cold.

-The auto-off feature will also not work when you have the defroster on. I believe that this is due to the a/c automatically turning on. If you pay attention, you'll notice that when you have the fan speed on auto and then switch the defroster on (not the defroster for the rear window, the defroster/defogger for the fron windshield and side windows), the econ light automatically turns off. When you turn the knob from defroster back to auto, the a/c light comes on. Basically, when you tell the car to automatically control you defrost speed at whatever temperature you have set, the a/c automatically turns on to help clear up the windeshields, also disabling the auto-off feature. The same thing happens when you select the defroster/floor vent option.

Somebody in there said they got their oil changed at 7,000 miles... Why? I thought you were supposed to have that done every 5,000 miles. At least that's what my dealer and the instruction manual says.

For people noticing a decrease in gas milage after 7-10k miles, besides cold weather, gel in gas, tire pressure, etc, could it be a reduction in the battery capacity, and the controller is using the engine more? Maybe the new battery allowed more electric drive? Just a thought.

When are you all going to wake up and relize HYBRIDS DON'T WORK!!IN THE LONG RUN.I have a Diesel and YES I take a hit in the winter but GUESS what I still get 44mpg in the winter.Wake up use Biodiesl and Think Diesel>>>>

Wagonman, actually there's nowhere on earth that would need anti-gel in the gasoline. Regular gasoline has a gel temp somewhere around -100F. There's not really anywhere on Earth that gets that cold, at least not anyplace you'd be likely to drive a vehicle that didn't have an insulated gas tank.

Diesel on the other hand has gel temps as high as +32F to +20F for summer blends and some winter blends will only go down to -20F or so without very serious additional additivies above and beyond what were already in the mix from the pump.

Diesel is extremely dirty in it's nature thanks to the fact diesels don't have throttlebodies. They run extremely lean in all normal conditions and this causes emission levels that are 10 to 20 times higher than a normal gasoline car of similar output. Technology is improving to clean up diesels, but because of it's lack of a throttlebody, it will always be inherently much harder to clean up.

Biodiesel is only marginally more cost effective than Ethanol, and B100 gells around 32F. Ethanol gels well below -100F since it's effectively pure alcohol. Between the two, ethanol is a lot easier to use, although B100 may be a bit cheaper to produce on a massive scale. Sucks to be you if you live anywhere that gets below 32F though since it would have to be loaded up with anti-gel additives, increasing the cost even further and reducing the overall efficiency.

I'm sure glad that I bought a Jetta TDI (diesel).
With biodiesel thinned with anti-gel kerosene, I'm only getting 46 mpg cruising at 85 mph 120 miles each day. Best of all, NO BATTERIES REQUIRED and 40-50% less CO2 (greenhouse gas) emissions than a regular gas powered engine.

Do I detect a bit of DIESEL ENVY among gas-electric hybrid owners?

Competing technologies are largely at a crossroads right now. I'm looking more to the end of the decade to see where things are at. The real-world economy of gas-electric hybrids will be well known by then. Long term reliability and longevity plus the environmental issues will be well known too. It will be interesting to see what power train developments happen over the coming years.

In Europe, Diesel passenger are all the rage over there, now exceeding 50% of all cars on the road there and make up 2/3 of new car sales. In the high-end expensive luxury car segment, the penetration is around 90% and growing. It has been adopted as the practical and greener alternative to gasoline. Greener in terms of greenhouse gas emissions, less crude oil consumption, and more environmentally friendly in terms of the total energy cycle when you consider where gas and Diesel fuel come from when you factor in the energy input into the refining process. Diesels also can run on alternative fuels such as Bio-Diesel, and you can even make it yourself at home from french fry oil if you wanted to. I'm currently unaware of any gas-electric hybrid on the market yet that can run on fuel you can make at home in your kitchen if we were to be hit with another gas crunch like back in the 1970s.

Right now, I drive a 2002 VW Golf TDI 5-speed and get 47MPG consistently during sustained agressive highway driving at 80-85MPH. It gets it's published EPA's mileage numbers even while doing everything you're not supposed to do with a gas-electric hybrid to get best MPGs. If I "babied" it instead instead of driving it hard all the time, it can easily EXCEED its published EPA numbers!

I drive about 1000 miles per week in my work commute plus maintaining a life outside the workplace. Because I'm a driving enthusiast and I drive a lot, there are fundamentally 3 reasons why I chose a modern European-designed turbodiesel car over a gasoline-electric hybrid: Economy, Longevity, and Performance. It's able to offer the blend without compromising its "car" features to get GAS mileage improvements alone. One thing overlooked in the diesel vs. hybrid discussions is the fun to drive factor. VW TDIs are easy and fun to drive.

At 145k miles currently on the odometer, I'm not worried about it's continued reliability and longevity. In terms of performance, the performance is better than ever and still improving. As a lot of gasoline engines including gas hybrid engines begin to show signs of weakened low-end torque, my diesel engine is just entering its prime of life. Diesels definitely have the upper hand when it comes to longevity.

In the winter, I take a 2-3MPG hit because of winterized diesel fuel alone, not because the car is running any less efficiently. In terms of performance, it actually performs its best during the coldest part of the winter. Colder air is denser air and the turbocharger does a better job of getting more air into the engine for better combustion. It hauls arse best in the wicked cold air with ony a minor MPG hit from the winterized fuel.

For putting around town in stop/go traffic, I still prefer the Diesel. It takes very little fuel to idle a Diesel, unlike a gasser. When decelerating in gear, fuel injection is ZERO until the RPMs come down to where fuel has to be injected to maintain RPM under load. It consumes about 5 milliliters per minute of idling (as reported by my engine's ECU via OBD-II diagnostic software). That's only a couple of spoonfuls of fuel per minute, not enough to worry about! The auto-stop feature of gas-electric hybrids is unnecessary with a Diesel. I'm still able to get around 45MPG while doing lots of stop/go city driving. Diesels are relatively insensitive to driving patters and barely sip fuel at idle.

In terms of safety when fueling, Diesel is far safer to handle than gasoline. It doesn't produce explosive vapors that can ignite easily. It's known that liquid Diesel fuel will actually extinguish a lighted match. Don't try this at home with gasoline!

I'm not going to get excited about hybrid technologies until DIESEL-electric hybrids start appearing. MPGs and 1000+ mile tank ranges will become the norm when that happens. Non-hybrid Diesels in Europe already quicker than their gasoline counterparts while delivering better MPGs too. The non-hybrid VW Lupo already gets 81MPG(US). The new Honda Accord Diesel is already setting new world records for MPGs and performance. Too bad we'll never get any of these cars in the USA.

After owning and driving a modern turbodiesel car, I will not own another GASOLINE powered car again if I can help it, including gas-electric hybrids. Once you convert to DIESEL, you don't go back to GASOLINE. It doesn't make sense. With DIESEL, I can be totally free from OPEC if necessary by running Bio-Diesel.

I'm currenly buying a 2005 Jeep Liberty Common-Rail Diesel (160HP, 295 lb-ft torque) as a second vehicle. No more gassers for me!

quote: "Do I detect a bit of DIESEL ENVY among gas-electric hybrid owners? "

Not if you speak English and can read at a sixth-grade level.

Look, everybody knows about the advantages and disadvantages of hybrids and diesel. Intelligent people come here to discuss the pros and cons of each. We don't come to this forum to hear people SHOUT that their DIESEL or HYBRID is better than the other person's DIESEL or HYBRID.

I am a HCH owner who loves my car, and gets 44-52 MPG easily. And I am actually considering a diesel for my next car purchase, to replace our other car, once diesels become clean and stop spewing so much junk into the air that they cannot even be sold in my state. But after reading rants like yours and the previous ones, I am less inclined than ever to do so. If your intention is to entice people towards diesel, then I'm afraid you are probably having the opposite effect.

Winter driving in a honda civic "hybrid"sucks. I ended up taking my civic back and getting a dodge neon srt-4 because the new hybrids dont run in cold conditions. Overall they SUCK........

Photo, have you ever heard "never say never". You're making a pretty strong statement on something that you can't possible know the outcome of.
They may figure out a way to make diesels cleaner than gasser, you never know. They might also find out that the benzene and smaller particulates with gas actually cause more harm than the larger particulates of diesel engines.

There is a lot more to poor gas milage in the winter than merely the fuel. Friction from the cold means that your vehicle will not roll as easily . . . resulting in . . . it takes more fuel to move it . . .

thanks for everyone's responses, I have to say, I "got into it" with Honda central and they have responded by having a chat with my dealer. I am the only HCH they service and my problems did start in september (I am in New Jersey) when I had my second oil change and we had a pretty warm fall. I am suspicious that the wrong oil was used. It is recommended to be 0W if I am correct. The gas does have the MBTA or whatever here in the winter, and my tires should be checked. But I am still a little shocked that Honda is not upfront about this. Though I do believe in my heart that car dealers are not far up the chain from pond scum.

I still like my car, I especially enjoy the idiots who charge up to me when I am driving just above the speed limit in the slow lane and think that I;m not going fast enough (please) when they see the "hybrid" tag.

And regarding that person who drives 85 miles an hour? what is that? have you heard of safe driving? I hope you know how fast your brakes will safely stop you, and I hope you aren't driving in New Jersey!

On Low Winter miles per gallon:
All vehicals are less efficient in the winter, especially in the northern climates. There are many things your car is required to do/ more frequently in the winter. These include:
Heating: blower motor and the pump(some models) Heated seats.
Defoggers: Electric - Back window, mirrors, Front +more blower hours
Lights = Electricity = Engine hours - (less hours of daylight
More power to drive thru snow and in Cold: Increased wheel drag thru snow - Batteries and Engines less efficient at cold temperatures
This all can be described as the First Law of Thermodynamics (for you Engineers) - the conservation of Energy - There is no loss - Just conversion: ie If you use it, you pay for it!

Legislators failing to know the above created the all Electric car sales quotas that passed without being met. This legislation delayed the introduction of Hybrids and caused much consternation.

You can increase your fuel milage by keeping you car in heated spaces, waiting to drive until the roads are plowed, not using the heat, defoggors, or lights, but I like using all.
Good Luck

Overall I see a lot of disappointment with hybrid mileage. I agree that hybrids make SOME sense in the city where the regenerative braking works to your advantage. But I have a 1000 km/week highway commute. A diesel is the only sensible alternative for me. We own two, a Jetta wagon that gets 1200 km/tank (750 miles), and a Passat which gets 1000 km/tank (600 miles). The Passat has consistently averaged 34-38 mpg year-round. Might I point out that this is a fair sized family car with 134 hp and 247 lb-ft of torque. The Jetta, having a manual transmission, does even better, about 40-45 mpg (depends largely on whether we have the roof rack and ski box or bike racks on top). Its engine produces 100 hp and 177 lb-ft of torque.

The big beef I have with hybrids though, is economics. Honda wants about $23000 for a top-of-the-line Civic Si sedan, (automatic) and an extra $5500 for a hybrid Civic (Canadian $). A pretty substantial premium. I can get a nicely equipped Jetta GLS for about $26500 or about $1500 over the gas GLS. The premium for the Passat over a gas model was only about $300.

Then check out residual values at the Canadian Black Book site (you have to do this through a automaker's site). Factor in the resale value, and the hybrid looks like a net economic loss over driving a gas Civic. A 2-year old Civic Hybrid fetches about $15500 at trade-in. A 2-y.o. Jetta TDI sedan fetches about $19500. A straight Civic LX sedan (no Si in 2003) would fetch $14200 (on a LX that sells for about $20000).

Total capital loss to run a TDI for 2 years: $7000.
Total capital loss to run a Civic LX for 2 years: $5800
Total capital loss to run a Civic hybrid for 2 years: $12500.

To put it plainly, a hybrid makes very little economic sense with these numbers. The fuel economy gain over a base Civic would require many, many years of driving to pay for the price premium of nearly $7000 in 2 years. For an environmentally sound technology to catch on, it has to make economic sense. Most middle-income families do not have the luxury of blowing $7 grand just to be "green" when buying a car. I also haven't factored in the big unknown with hybrids: the cost of battery replacement.

On the other hand, a diesel, does pay back relatively quickly both with high resale value and great fuel economy vs an equivalent gas model.

In terms of environmental soundness, diesels and hybrids both have their advantages and disadvantages. In terms of getting the best overall reduction in greenhouse gases, diesels are the best bet due to the operating effiency, AND the refining efficiency of the fuel. And who can honestly say what the environmental impact of the disposal of large batteries laden with heavy metals will have? Even if recycled, you have to factor in the energy expenditure in the recycling process.

Diesels on the other hand have issues with particulates and NOx. These are more quality-of-life issues than destroy-the-planet issues like greenhouse gases. But they are nonetheless important from a health perspective.

All said though, I think we diesel and hybrid types can agree that we have a common environmental enemy: large SUVs!

Mike G.

Mike G.
One other thing that some folks need to take into account when purchasing a car is incentives and tax breaks. My state, Connecticut, recently passed enacted a law that exempts hybrid cars (only the civic, prius and insight) from state sales tax (equivalent to $1,300). The U.S. still has a federal tax break on hybrid cars that enables most buyers to save $500 to $600 on taxes. These two tax breaks resulted in a total savings on the purchase of my new Honda Civic of $1,900. This resulted in my civic being only $100 more than a comparably equipped non-hybird civic (one with side impact airbags, etc.). The decision for me and other folks in progressive states like connecticut is easy, even when the financials are considered.

I bought a hybrid civic in nov 2004 and now have 10k miles. I am getting 32-36 mpg. I took it into the dealer and just got dumb looks as to what is going on. A friend of mine has an accord and claims he is getting 28 mpg consistently. Feel like a fool being spoken to by fools.

Well this is my first post here and it is about as off topic as can be so I am sorry...

I need to get some things straight that I just read about people comparing a V.W. to a Honda... deisel or not a dub may be one of the worst cars in terms of reliability and in dealer service... And before people start the flame up let me finish... I have owned in the past ( in order)

G.T.I. 16 v....................great car and reliable
87 civic........................ most reliable car ever
91 accord......................see above
z24.............................. garbage
94 probe gt...................oh god bad
98 camry......................rock solid
00 bonneville ssei..........fast but expensive to keep
01 celica gts..................2 engines and a lemon law claim
01 highlander................very nice but SMALL
01 Civic........................solid but SLOOOW
02 camry...................still have and solid
02 jetta.....................9 unresolved problems w/run around
03 passat...................Horrific issues electrical problems
04 solara...................minor issues
04 toureg...................dont even ask
05 accord (hybrid).......1600 miles and great

Now to my point:

someone posted how great the TDI jetta is and then pulled some Costs to own out his @$$ ... Well they are WAY off

The Jetta has one of the worst ( Real life ) resale values in its class... and is very problematic ( check out consumer reports and others ).

I ran out of gas on the way to the dealer 3 times with the jetta because the fuel door wouldn't open and there is no manual release ( nice engineering )

The passat was not only slow and boring for a touring sedan but it had major electrical issue and 10% of the time the climate control would just go wacky...

The Toureg was just a joke... it spent 110 days in the shop in its first 6 months...

V.W. dealers are the pits on top of it all... they would never provide a car to drive and they wouldnt step up and help me try to resolve the problems with the manufacturer...I had to sue VW via the lemon law to get my money back for that POS...At least when we had problems with our celica ,Toyota stepped up and took care of the problem with no hassels and gave us a Highlander at cost ( true cost $18k for the limited ) and gave us full purchase price back for the celica.

If you want a reliable , fuel efficient car than VW is not even in the race ... dont believe me than go to www.vwvortex.com and read about all the issues that are plaguing their cars

I LIVE IN MN . AT 20 ABOVE I GET IN CITY 35-40 AND ON THE HIWAY I GET 56-60 . ABOVE 50 DEGREES I GET 48-50 IN CITY AND HAVE GOT 62.5 I HAVE O5 HCH I DRIVE WITH THE CRUISE CONTROL SET AT 60 MPH I HAVE THE 5 SPEED MANUAL

I live in Grand Rapids, MI. I own a 2003 HCH (80,000 miles now) and have been VERY impressed w/ its ability to achieve 49.5 mpg lifetime fuel economy. I've NEVER had any battery problems w/ the Nickel-Metal Hydride batteries, and I LOVE how the car doesn't rely on the regular battery under the hood during startup.

I work in AAA MI's roadside assistance center here in GRapids, and I've never seen a HCH in need of a jumpstart. :-) The car does lose some efficiency (about 2-3 mpg, depending on how cold it is) in the winter months but it doesn't bother me. I know that every car loses MPG when it's cold. Yes, keeping the tire pressure up IS important during the winter AND summer months.

As for the "Hybrid vs. Diesel" issue, I agree that we're on the same side. It is only a matter of time until Honda and/or Toyota produce a "Hybrid-Diesel" that delivers truly STUNNING mpg ratings. I'm excited about that, and I'm sure it will be the next "drive system" type that I purchase.

As for the HCH in cold conditions, I believe that we HCH drivers need to realize that speeds between 50 and 60 mph are BEST for achieving approximately 50 mpg. AVOID jack-rabbit starts AND COAST WHEN YOU CAN- drive like you don't have brakes! Even when it's COLD outside, you can boost efficiency by setting the heater on the 2nd or 3rd LOWEST fan setting (avoid auto) AND by using the defrosters only as needed (use auto here as it is much faster...). One thing that I'd like to point out is the simple fact that during summer months the AC can POSITIVELY kill your mpg. Only use it when you have to. I've actually went 710 miles on the HCH's 13.3 gallon tank during August! I captured that stellar # on the dashboard w/ my camera phone and still have the picture.

As for the "quality and reliability" issue, I've never had ONE problem w/ the engine or CVT transmission in the HCH, and I change my engine oil every 8,000 miles. Take your HCH to your Honda dealer for the oil changes. The synthetic oil used is GREAT oil and it lasts MUCH longer under almost ANY driving condition, in my opinion. My MPG has BARELY even dropped recently, and I'm almost at 8K miles since my last oil change. I've been VERY impressed w/ the reliability and durability of this vehicle. I'm also impressed w/ the EBD (Electronic Braking Distribution) while on snow and ice. It really does slow you down FASTER than traditional ABS systems, even w/ the smaller tires. Impressive. I am now a loyal Honda owner, and I do believe that GM and Ford have some SERIOUS catching up to do. :-)

I believe that I am one of many HHOs-Happy Hybrid Owners. I truly believe that the # of people such as I can only continue to grow, as long as positive word-of-mouth continues to sell these wonderful vehicles. If you haven't had good luck w/ your hybrid, then it is LIKELY that you need to change your driving technique.

Just got a '06 honda civic hybrid 2 weeks ago, read through the manual, interesting that it states" the hybid system will NOT work in cold conditions until the batteries warm up,(this is done to protect the batteres), also that the hybrid system will NOT work in extreme heat until approx 15 minutes have passed" (also to protect the batteries)
I bought the car to drive around this little town, sure enough, the hybrid assist does not work until I have driven about 5 minutes on very cold days. It also doesn't recharge the batteries while stopping until the hybrid system wakes up. My trips are the 5 minute type.
Ya think the dealer would tell you this?

To Brrrr who has ice crystals on the inside of all windows - the odds are that you are keeping your heater on "recirculate." I have only had window fogging problems (with all types of cars) when inadvertently driving around with the heat on recirculate. In my experience, that would have nothing to do with any unique characteristics of the HCH. Make sure the light is out on the recirc button (the left one) and that heated fresh air should solve your problem pronto.

I have an 06 HCH that is getting around 35. I am past the first oil chande and I learned to drive my friend's Prius before I bought my HCH. The car has been back to the dealer 3 times for engine error codes. Sometimes the car's IMA locks out the starter and the car won't move! Honda will not tell the dealer what the codes mean. The response from Honda has been, "It sucks to be you!" I wish Toyota would make the Prius faster. I have owned 2 Corrollas and both cars got better mileage and lasted 200,000 miles without any engine lights. From what I've been told I am stuck with this occasional paperweight! First and last Honda EVER!

What I would like to see next year is a bybrid that uses E85. (Ford Escape would be a great start.)

I live in Wisconsin. I never had a drop in mpg with my Toyotas in winter. Even down to -10F. I commonly used ethanol blend which is the only thing most gas companies will add to fuel in the winter. From 10 years and around 150,000 miles of driving below 32F, I can tell you that the winter mpg drop is false for most regular fuel gas engines. Hybrids have a significant drop. That comes from the fact that low temperatures DO have a severe impact on batteries and other electrical systems. There is a reason that SEARS always bragged about how their DIEHARDs would start every time in Int'l Falls, MN. It's because its hard for a battery to do anything at -10F!

I have also lived 3 years in Europe and can tell you a thing or two about European Diesels. The whole continent of Europe lives under a smog cloud worse than LA on a hot August day. Even the newest micro-engined VWs produce more exhaust than 5 American SUVs. They do get extremely good mileage, however much of this comes from European diesel fuel which doe not meet EPA requirements. Also, the large majority of those diesel drivers are in the developed and warmer regions of Europe. Even the most advanced Benz or BMW will not start if its engine block heater is not plugged in when the temp drops below 0 F. (Hybrid in Jan... No Plug! Diesel in Jan... Hmmm?)

In Wisconsin, diesel requires all sorts of additives in the winter to keep it from geling. The State Patrol often fines truck drivers if they stall on the interstate because of the wrong fuel. Fuel economy for diesels drops significantly in winter and there is the added cost of electricity for 10 hours every night or a heated garage during the highest energy use months of the year.

Just some thoughts.

From Wisconsin: NO DIESEL... NO PLUG

Mike if you are looking for tips take a look here:
http://www.greenhybrid.com/learn/article/2-achieving-high-fuel-efficiency.html

They, and along with other techniques brought my '04 HCH from the upper 40's to 50's, and last summer averaged 65MPG, with my own personal record tank of 69.2MPG and 941 miles.

This mild Atlanta winter have averaged upper 50's.

These same tips have raised our Grand Caravan up from 15-16MPG to the low 20's.
Congradulations on driving conservatively, and it is helpful to know what is effective- and what is not.

I'm thinking about purchasing a Civic Hybrid, after many years in a now very rusty but still reliable Toyota Camry. My concern for winter driving is not fuel efficiency, but safety. The Camry has been a dream in our harsh central New York winters. Those of you who live in serious winter conditions and own a Civic Hybrid - how does it handle in the snow and ice? Can I put studded snow tires on it?
Thanks!
Diana

"Those of you who live in serious winter conditions and own a Civic Hybrid - how does it handle in the snow and ice? Can I put studded snow tires on it?"

I live in the Colorado mountains, and can tell you that the Civic Hybrid handles snow and ice pretty much like any other small front-wheel-drive vehicle, including the Camry. The biggest difference is the engine braking that results from the hybrid system - it can cause the front wheels to skid slightly when you let off the gas on a slippery surface. Not a real problem, but it's good to be aware of it.

You could put studded snow tires on it, but do yourself and the roads a favor and get Blizzak-type studless tires instead. They have almost all of the ice traciton of studs without the constant howling. The Bridgestone Blizzak and Dunlop Graspic are the most commonly available examples of these. The Dunlops are a little cheaper; I have used both, and find the Dunlops every bit as good as the Blizzaks.

For the best winter handling and safety, use snow tires on all four wheels. The difference is huge.

For what it's worth, here are my numbers

Bought 2008 Honda Civic Hybrid (July 1st, 2008)

Overall Fuel Economy to Date: 6.4 l /100 km (37 mpg)
Total distance traveled: 15000 km (Approx. 40% highway @ 100 km/hr)

Winter Fuel Economy: 9.0 l/100 km (26 mpg)
Winter Distance traveled: 1500 km (Approx. 40% highway @ 100 km/hr)
Winter period driven: Jan 3rd 2009 - Feb 13th 2009

It's been brutally cold here in Ottawa for the period, high of 7.8 C on Feb 11th, -30 C on Jan 16th with several days below -20 C

The auto-stop wouldn't work if you use front defroster. I found out the auto-stop works if you cycle the mode to front defroster together with directing air flow to your feet.

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