Topping off tank.....??????
Created May 16, 2007, at 7:09 pm by FloydNY
I know they say your not suppose to "top off" the tank when you fill up,
I've only purchased 5 tanks so far, but each time i've been able to to almost two gallons after the pump shut down on it's own.
I've been filling all the way up to the top.
Am curious what others are doing.
Do you top off, or just walk away when the pump shuts off on it's own?
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We typically drive away when the pump first clicks off ;)
Maybe you've got an over touchy pump? 2 gallons seems a lot to squeeze in. Anyway, if you've got it topped up all the way up the fill neck, you're increasing your odds off tipping some out onto the road for the first few miles.
Not the best idea to top off, but if you get a gallon and no spill, ok. It is bad for the environment and could cause over spill.
Drive Happy!
It is NOT a good idea to force additional fuel after the first click of the pump.
This is especially true of the 06-07 HCH. The vehicle meets PZEV emissions in part because of the additional measures implemented in the vehicle's evaporative system. Attempting to overfill the tank will leave very little room for the system to accomodate differences in pressure and vacuum and can cause EVAP related codes to be thrown.
When these codes are thrown the typical "Fuel Cap" message may be displayed in the dash and may take days (sometimes weeks) to disappear. Not a good idea at all.
In the extreme of cases (especially those already reported) the gas cap, evap sensors, filler tube may have to be replaced in any combination depending on the level of damage. Honda may refuse to honor the warranty fulfillment if negligence of this sort is evident.
Please do not overfill. It buys you nothing in the long run except possible repair bills.
Furthermore, be gentle when inserting the filler nozzle into the car and handle the gas cap carefully.
Cheers;
MSantos
I fill mine up to the top of the filler neck every-time.
I can get a total of 12.4 gallons in it.
I have never had, heard of or know of/how an Evap code could or would set from topping it off.
The evap reads pressure drop. The tank is sealed and can only be vented through the canister purge/vent valve.
No code will be set due to topping off.
Anyone that thinks so is absolutely incorrect and passing off bad/incorrect information. The phenomenon of the Internet myths.:eek:
That explains it.
Yep. Thank you.
Although saddened, I am also comforted by your consistency and predictability.
In any case, I wish you luck and I trully hope your example does not become a self fulfilling statistic... after all, certainty is rarely assured only probability is.
Take care.
<>
For all other HCH owners who care:
The codes that are often generated are P0455 and P0456. These codes typically occur because a leak in the evap system was detected. Now, to give a little background to my explanation particularly for those who do not mind checking my statement afterwards:
Fresh fuel always has a higher volatility AND more often than not, will create much greater vacuum or pressures (depending on temperature) until it stabilizes. If you overfill the tank then you deny the system the amount of resilience it needs to accommodate those fluctuations. The pressure (or vacuum build-up) CAN then cause a leak in the system - it has happened already. The two codes are representative of either a small leak or a larger leak.
Also, fuel splashing on the gas cap or even the filler tube seal for longer periods of time can cause accellerated deterioration of its sealing ability (especially with fuels that have a small percentage of ethanol - Still not corroborated with actual test results, but it does not hurt to be cautious in the meantime).
Cheers;
MSantos
So I guess your an authority of all automotive systems.
While your statements are entertaining. They are incorrect.
The fuel on the cap will cause it to leak...??? So I guess the vapor from the fuel will not cause this.:confused: Only actual fuel contact will.:eek:
Your book reports are very nice.
I`m not sure of your experience in the industry, but it is very evident you have a lot of knowledge. I have 30 years of professional automotive experience. Your codes related to the evap system are accurate. But your speculating on what will cause codes.
The system is controlled by the PCM. It only reads pressures during pre-set times within drive cycles. It can, will and does purge the system to control pressures within those set parameters. This was designed to control vapor release into the atmosphere.
The caps are non-vented. The seals are designed for today's fuels and additive packs. Leak detection is pressure loss only. Either gross or small leak detection. Topping off has no effect on the pressure sensors ability to read tank pressures and control system purge/venting. No over pressure scenario exists with this type of closed system due to it`s ability to control pressure with a vent/purge valve based on set parameters.
I`m glad you have a difference of opinion and are willing to pass your knowledge and info on to others.
Maybe you could study the systems operation and re-evaluate your statements. Yeah Right...As you expected, I don`t believe your statement and will tell you so....:cool: My information is based on first hand knowlege.
Not on scepticism and speculation. Thanks for your time.
Sir;
I do not wish to engage or promote a hostile exchange in this fashion. That should be quite obvious both through my conduct and underlying mission.
The statements I make are appropriately and conditionally qualified to remain correct for anyone who cares to read them carefully... particularly for those of us who have indeed been around long enough to learn the benefits of that.
However, out of respect and consideration for all those readers who may need to make their own decisions as well as their own validation of what is a best recommendation, I will kindly and humbly suggest that they read the contents of the following pages of their own vehicle's owner's manuals:
Honda Civic Hybrid 2007 Model:
"Service Station Procedures" - Paragraph 4 (Page 151)
Honda Civic Hybrid 2006 Model:
"Service Station Procedures" - Paragraph 4 (Page 151)
In light of ALL information unveilled in this thread, I suggest that the readers think about this issue (and the initial post from FloydNY) and subsequently make a choice they are comfortable with. If you still require additional information and validation please consult your dealership's Service Department.
Regards;
MSantos
That`s fine. I wish not to argue, but I will call B/s when I see/hear it.
I will voice my opinion base on fist hand knowledge when I find this type of broad base misinformation posted as fact.
Your book reports are incorrect and that`s a fact.
This is in no way meant to be an argument or personal attack on you or your statements. Just the other side of the coin, so to speak.
Fuel contact on the cap will not cause it to leak....Period....:rolleyes:
Topping off the tank will not cause a leak either. ....Period....:rolleyes:
As for code info...,Yes that is correct. When the system detects a small or gross leak it will set a code. Also if the cap is left loose it will set a code. That`s the only 3 ways a code will set.
The rest is a hypothesis base on your interpretation of the owners manual.
Mine is based on known facts from operational flow charts and common problems. It`s further based on first hand diagnostic`s of this system. The cause and corrections of both codes and system failures.
The most prominent failure is vent valve solenoid fault.
Never, not one from topping off the fuel tank. And that`s my piont.:cool:
LOL
whut a loser
Please, don't take this further down below where it is at already.
Personal attacks and references to BS of any kind just lower the value of the person making them and that of this forum. These examples are never justified regardless of who starts using it first.
Despite DR. Diesel's methods and approach, I have the highgest respect for him as I do anyone else. I would kindly request that you do the same.
In light of these developments and to keep this and other exchanges at the highest level of civility, I've decided that I will cease to post in this forum indefinitely.
Thank you all and good luck.
MSantos
Oh.:confused:
BUT..............
I really don`t think your drastic action is necessary.
You have a quality and valued input here.
You don`t need to stop posting. I`m not singling you out or anything in that manner.
I`m just calling some of your info...It`s not a big deal.
P/S - I`m sorry if your offended by this. It`s not meant to offend or discredit you. Your a very knowledgeable and valued resource. Please stay on this board and continue your post.
I will stop my posting in this manner and use a positive approach if your willing to stay. Thanks.
I would never wish to hurt anyone`s feelings or cause them to feel the need to leave due to my actions. Again...I apologise. Please remain on this board and continue your informative post.
I hesitate to wade into this argument but I think some might be interested to know that it is illegal to top off a tank in the state of California. It has been explained to me (I don't claim to be any sort of authority) that this is because it will cause fuel to leak (liquid or vapor form) if the fuel in the tank heats up and there is not enough expansion space in the tank+filler tube.
Yes. I would say that sounds about right for the state to make some law to that effect. But that will not stop anyone from this type of behaviour(my opinion) when fueling there vehicle`s.
I see it quite often when I`m fueling my vehicles.
As far as expansion room is involved, a topped off tank will be less-likely to expand due to lack of room for heat from vapor/air space to occur.
I know when my motorcycle tank is full and it get`s heated from the suns direct rays it has less pressure than when it has a lesser amount of fuel.
This also is my personal findings.
And as stated in my earlier posts....I (key word here) have never in 30 years come across a fuel system problem from topping off the tank, either with my personal vehicle or any of the hundreds of thousands I have worked on.
I am stating personal knowlege, not scientific fact....For those that need validation...:cool:
Dr.Diesel;
I'm sorry for my stupid outburst a couple of days ago
I was very upset because I saw you hiting [looked to me like that] against msantos... That ticked me off because msantos has been giving us very wise advice. I swear that his advice was straight from Honda after what my service adviser said so. The service adviser took a look at most of his posts and he said msantos was right and talked about things he never heard before, but he checked on those 2 and msantos was still right
I owe msantos alot for me buying my 2007 hybrid and learning so much about it... so yeah, I was very pissed because he seems like a very nice guy that can help many idiots like me. I even think he's a honda plant in this forum that can help us understand things that some dealers can't teach us
Hey, I'm sorry
I am slapping myself stupid because of my f****** anger
I'm gonna PM him and ask him to continue posting
Hey msantos.. Im sorry, please do force me to beg ... OK?
I promise I'll never say anything stoopid again, I'll just soak whatever anyone says from here on
WoW. Thank you.. Apology humbly accepted. :cool: No harm no foul. I can understand your frustrations.
I also did not attempt to make anyone mad or feel they need to leave because of my Post`s.
As I stated to MSatos, he has a very valued input here and in no way did I try to make him feel attacked or criticize/discredited.
Thanks again for your reply, and hopefully MSanto will come back to continue his valued input. :cool: I would also like to apologize for my reply and sharp tongue with you. Thanks again.
After the first click, I usually give a few, "short" pops of the trigger to get an amount to the nearest quarter. IE, gas pump stops at $15.19, I will add just enough to equal $15.25.
I take my reasoning from my flight experiences (hence the username). It is not a good idea to top off an airplane as it will damage the fuel guages...
I'm no expert but I try and top off my tank. But I do it carefully because one time pressure built up and gas started shooting out of the tank. (different car)
Some gas pumps seem to be more sensitive than others as far as when they shut off. I figure if you screw the gas cap on tight enough, there shouldn't be any leakage.
MSantos I read your posts at GreenHybrid also. To stop posting because of a counterpoint ? Aren't we here to learn and share information.
Well, all I have to say is that quite of few of you managed to track me down at other forums and asked me to rescind on my prior decision to stop posting here. I am moved and humbled. :o
The counter side to this is that you've forced me to go back on my word and that places me in a position of having to apologize for it as well. ;)
It is on this note that I will them submit my apologies to anyone I may have hurt or offended.
I hope that we can forget this thread and resume adding great value to this forum in hopes that great variety of our backgrounds and knowledge can help the greater cause.
On a more egotistical note, the greater cause still remains the acceptance and proliferation of hybrid vehicles in our society; and providing support to new and future hybrid owners is the best way to strengten our common goals.
AvidHy:
Thank you, and don't worry about it. Let's make a commitment to remain positive and as effective as we can be. As you mentioned in your PM's, it never hurts to choose the higher ground.
Dr. Diesel:
I believe we have more in common than it appears. ;)
There's strenght and value in the diversity of our views and I believe that together we can provide richer advice to anyone who asks. I never got upset with you and my prior decision did not hinge on your posts at all. I apologize if I made it look like that.
For all other rather "enterprising" forum readers who managed to track me down:
Thank you. Yes, I'm back (see you made a liar out of me ;) )
Cheers;
MSantos
That`s Great. Glad to have you and your valued opinion back on the site.
And yes I believe with all the info we can supply that this would be a very informative site. Thanks again.
I look forward to our renewed and new collaborations.:cool:
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