Steam-electric hybrid auto
Created February 18, 2007, at 12:23 am by Taganan
External Combustion of fuel with forced-air draft produces less pollution and what is produced is more easily controlled. EC can use any liquid or gaseous fuel so it is the ultimate in multi-fuel use. Ideally we would use biofuels so that the CO2 emissions would simply be recycled in growing crops to make biofuels. [Biofuels are another subject.] EC does not require highly refined fuels and could use ethanol, vegetable oil, propane, natural gas, methane,furnace fuel oil, kerosene, liquified coal, synthetic fuels and even hydrogen whenever it becomes practical.
The engine best suited to EC is the steam engine, but as direct power to the wheels it has drawbacks, 1. a wait of at least 30 seconds before the car can move, 2. you can't "gun it" and 3. the water can freeze. By using the steam engine to run an alternator to charge batteries which power reversible electric motors at each wheel the car could move immediately and you could "gun it". By using electric heat strips there would be no problem with freezing.
Forced air burners are efficient. Water tube boilers do not explode and make a lot of steam in a small size. There are tested and proven designs for steam engines which can be made lighter using modern alloys. Steam engines have fewer moving parts to wear out or break down, so they should last longer than IC engines. A 1930 Doble 2 cylinder compound uniflow engine has gone over 600,000 mi. with only regular maintenance.
Since the car would have an electric motor at each wheel there would be no transmission, differential or CV joints. This would compensate for any extra weight involved in the EC components. The motor/wheel unit would move to steer and a computer would replace the differential by varying the speed of each wheel. The same computer would control all engine and power functions.
The computer would automatically start the steam engine/alternator to maintain battery charge and stop it when at proper charge. When parked in a parking lot in freezing weather the heat strips would use electricity and the steam engine would be automatically started to charge the batteries. However if there were an electric outlet available, such as when in your own driveway, the car would have a cord to plug in and save fuel.
There is waste heat from the burner exhaust and from the spent steam which can be converted using thermo-electrics into extra electricity to increase the efficiency of the system. Regenerative braking is also a possible option for increasing efficiency.
I have had contacts with steam-power buffs. They refuse to consider anything but direct steam drive. Internal combustion people say steam is dangerous, boilers explode and the engines are obsolete. [All false.] They refuse to open their minds too. I hope to find some who will consider this idea, think of improvements and actually build a steam-electric car. Except for size all the designs for the burners, boilers and engines exist and need only a good machine shop. The other components are already being made and could be bought, even the controls and computer. The thermo-electrics may also be available. The high efficiency electric motors are for sale.
If I had money, a machine shop and did not have two left thumbs I would build one. I have hopes that someone out there might be inspired to do this. If so, let me know.
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I have been thinking quite a bit in the last couple of years on steam power. I have also considered in some detail the steam electric hybrid car. In fact, when I first considered the idea of a modern steam car, the most practical approach that surfaced in my mind was the steam electric parallel hybrid.
I actually have formal training in steam thermodynamics. I have a perspective on steam power that most people don't have. I recognize that all current methods used to power automobiles have inherent limitations that steam power does not have. The main problem with steam is that nobody has been willing to put in the research and the dollars toward it to fully develop its potential. However, there is one company that has developed a very promising steam engine. Even in its infancy it is demostrating efficiencies approaching the Diesel engine at greater than 30%. There is no oil lubrication of the cylinders... water condensation of the steam within the cylinders provides the lubrication. POWER TO WEIGHT is more than twice that of standard gasoline fueled automotive engines. With this technology, the hybrid approach is totally unnecessary, and would be counterproductive. However, if I were to personally attempt to construct a steam car with the performance of an average car on the road today, then I would go with the hybrid approach.
http://www.cyclonepower.com/
I think it's quite foolish that steam power isn't used. But then again, it would destroy/change the way everything runs now. How much would it cost to put together a workshop for making an engine, as well as building one? (estimate)
I can't imagine with the advances in technology that some one has not imagined or contrived a hybrid steam/electric vehicle. The idea of the whole thing is to eliminate dependance upon the gasoline pump at the high priced, greedy monopolistic fuel sellers.
(Arabs for one.)
I am in complete agreement of your conclusion that external combustion steam-electric would be the wisest choice for future transportation motors. Dependence on fossil fuels is bad news on many levels - it's just this sort of new direction we must take to assure our future generations will have a life of relative comfort as we have enjoyed during this Age of Oil.
I also have a very small home machine shop and I need work. :)
I do, however, believe in lowest-cost and lowest-tech solutions. The Cyclone engine is a work of art, but we can be rougher about this. While my view doesn't comply with traditional profit-making corporate methods, I do think it could allow more folks to own, maintain and repair their engines. In particular, I've heard that IC engines have been re-purposed, as it were, to be steam-driven. Sounds feasible, low-cost and many parts become available at commodity prices ... that's the way I'm leaning in my thoughts.
A smattering of science and engineering education and experience would serve me and any possible partners well in pursuit of successful development of such a noble project. It can be done; there are no engineering or materials breakthroughs necessary. I would love to hear from anyone serious in getting started on this.
Thanks for putting this subject up!!
I have been wanting to do this for a very long time ( about 2 years)
I am a computer engineer and always wanted to drive a steam car such as a stanley steamer.
I do not know where to start really, but would definitely love to build/drive one!
If you use the same principle as the current diesel locomotives. Using a fuel fed motor (steam) to drive a dc generator then by converting the dc to independant motors on each wheel via a batter storage system. You can also use a solar skin to feed into this battery bank. Just a thought for you home designers...If the companys and government no longer work for the people it's time for the people to design and build their own and drive them wild. Imagine a vehicle that doesn't have to pay fuel tax! Wouldn't that drive the polititians mad because they can't tax it....
Let's get back to the Cyclone Engine. This engine does not need to idle so there is really no reason for the Hybrid way of thinking. There is no reason to carry all those heavy batteries around all the time. The pistons do not move while at a stop light the fuel is released intermitently just to keep the combustion chamber at the right temperature. Plus, with the torque being so high at low RPM you can gun the engine right from the start. External combustion engines are great off the line and the Cyclone is supposed to start up very fast, I read that it takes 15 seconds from cold start to working temp and that is not bad. All and all from what I know the Cyclone might be the answer to many of our problems.
Hello, I know little to nothing about basic mechanics. However, I am compelled to learn quickly. Can anyone direct me towards an ultra-light water pipe boiler that is completly electric, or possibly give me some pointers on how to construct one. For a model (initially) aircraft I need the lightest components available. I do not wish to use any type of fuel burner, just a super light electric heating element... Can anyone make suggestions for me.
Thanks
The antispam questions.. Does this mean Ive just summoned a demon or something?
You'll soon figure out that I am NOT an engineer with this question, but would it be possible to carry enough batteries to power a purely electric steam engine? Thus eliminating fuel completely. The only thing you would have to add is water.
P.S. The rationale would be greater range than a traditional electric motor without the mess of any combustion.
An electric 'fired' steam engine would still have the potential to waste heat. As it is, a modern electric motor is about 90% efficient, meaning it only wastes about 10% of the battery energy as heat. This compares with an Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) wasting about 85% of the gasoline energy. I'm not sure what the overall efficiency of a cheap, lightweight, mobile steam engine would be since no one has designed one for a long time, however, it would have a tough time beating an electric motor in efficiency and simplicity.
High pressure superheated steam is even used by the refineries to "crack" the hydrocarbons into various gases and oils. Steam can be used efficiently if combined with other things.
Water4Gas - Save Money Using Water!
NOTHING is 90% efficient. IC engines were about 15% EFF. in the 1930's today we see about 25%. Your electric motors would need SUPER conductors to even come close to maybe 70% efficience. But a steam electric YES - the chevy volt with a steam turbine gen. sounds GOOD.
Unfortunately, you're misinformed about electric motors. Try googling electric motor efficiency and you'll find many confirmations. Here's a link to but one: http://www.ceere.org/iac/assessment%20tool/ARC2410.html. Note that this 90% efficiency number is for the motor only. The battery is about 90% efficient in charging and discharging as well so the total efficiency of a battery-electric vehicle is 90% * 90% *90% or 73% Add 90% efficiency to the power grid delivering the electricity and you get 65% efficiency.
Take your ICE which gets only about 25% efficiency (your number is 5 - 10% optimistic but I'll use it anyway) with maybe 85% transportation and delivery losses and you're at 22% efficiency.
This is why the electric drivetrain is so good.
If you don't believe me about the efficiency, lets look at an appliance that is available in electric or gasoline versions such as a weed wacker, a lawn mower, or a leaf blower. I challenge you to touch most parts of the IC motor driving any of these without burning yourself. You can easily touch nearly any part of the electric appliance.
I truly believe that your train of though has become completely derailed. Why make a steam-electric hybrid? Are you so hung up on the idea of the hybrid that you can't comprehend that you are waisting a vast amount of power changing from one form of energy to another?
A steam-electric hybrid makes as much sense as a nematic-electric hybrid. No mater what you do the car can't produce any less emissions.
Just power the car with steam; simple as that!
Also, CO2 is not pollution its air, ya know, that gas plants breath and turn into O2.
Taganan said:
External Combustion of fuel with forced-air draft produces less pollution and what is produced is more easily controlled.
Fact checker says:
The only emission from a properly built and maintained Steam Generator is CO2. CO2 is not pollution its a natural part of our atmosphere. Only those that actually believe Al Gore call it a pollution.
Taganan said:
The engine best suited to EC is the steam engine, but as direct power to the wheels it has drawbacks, 1. a wait of at least 30 seconds before the car can move, 2. you can't "gun it" and 3. the water can freeze.
Fact checker says:
I agree with you on your starting point, but after that your argument goes off into la la land.
1. So just how fast is your garage door opener? Mine takes at least 30 seconds to open.
2. What do you base that one; The Doble? A Three Ton Car, with one gear, and a 0-60 of about 8 seconds, and a top speed of 95 (120 mph on modern roads). Steam engines have about a 1 to 5 horse power to torque ratio. A 200 HP steam engine has about 1050 lb. ft of torque.
All you would need to move a modern car with a steam power cycle is about 20-40 horse power. Thats about 100-200 lb. ft. of torque, the Chevy Malibu with a 2.4 I4 only has 160 peak torque and you have to wait until 4500 rpms to get that. A steam engine will have its full torque from 0 on up.
The doble steam car made in the 1930's had well over 1000 ft-lb of torque, didn't have a transmission nor a clutch to bother with, weighed 3 tons and got 24 miles per gallon (Name any other 6000+ lbs car that gets 24 mpg?). It also had a top speed of 95 (120 on modern roads), accelerated from 0-60 in about 8 seconds (name any other 3 ton road vehicle that goes 0-60 in 8 seconds).
3. Yes water does freeze, but why is it lower than 32* in your garage? It wouldn't be that hard to have a computer controlled system that would bleed some of the 800* F steam through the pipes every now and then while the car was parked in the lot to keep the thing from freezing up. And if built right the system would be small and close together to save on heat loss.
Taganan said:
The computer would automatically start the steam engine/alternator to maintain battery charge and stop it when at proper charge. When parked in a parking lot in freezing weather the heat strips would use electricity and the steam engine would be automatically started to charge the batteries. However if there were an electric outlet available, such as when in your own driveway, the car would have a cord to plug in and save fuel.
Fact checker says:
I agree with you on the electrical outlet when at home or in a parking lot that has one, but as I said before the computer could just send a pulse of steam through the lines while sitting on the lot. Why waste the heat you have already made.
Taganan said:
There is waste heat from the burner exhaust and from the spent steam which can be converted using thermo-electrics into extra electricity to increase the efficiency of the system.
Fact checker says:
uh, you mean like a steam engine hooked up to an alternator?
Taganan said:
I have had contacts with steam-power buffs. They refuse to consider anything but direct steam drive.
Fact checker says:
They have this mentality because the idea of a steam-electric hybrid would be less fuel and energy efficient that a strait steam power cycle.
Taganan said:
Internal combustion people say steam is dangerous, boilers explode and the engines are obsolete.
Fact checker says:
Have you ever heard of the Stanly Steamer. Its the one car you can be boiled alive and burned to death in; AT THE SAME TIME! And they have blown up more than once. However, the Doble system was much more safe as it only had 2 quarts of water in the system as compared to the 25 gallon fire-tube boiler of the Stanly.
Taganan said:
I hope to find someone who will consider this idea, think of improvements and actually build a steam-electric car.
Fact checker says:
If Henry Ford had the same mind set I would be driving a car I has to body my self. Why don't you take a try at it.
Taganan said:
Except for size all the designs for the burners, boilers and engines exist and need only a good machine shop.
Fact checker says:
Speaking as someone that has already built a steam power plant for his farm here in SW Washington, the components are neither large, nor simple to make. However a proper manufacturer could make the parts in mass production that are reliable and safe.
Taganan said:
The other components are already being made and could be bought, even the controls and computer.
Fact checker says:
Only on the electrical end. Every thing for the steam system would have to be custom made.
Taganan said:
The thermo-electrics may also be available.
Fact checker says:
If their are systems that could convert heat directly into electricity you wouldn't need the steam engine. However, such does not exist. All the systems that convert waist heat into electricity are steam (water or otherwise) based.
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My final words
Now that I have craped all over your idea I will say this...
It is just as viable as any other hybrid system out there. It would operate much cleaner and could possibly result in even greater fuel efficiency over ICE based systems.
If you want some one that will give an objective viewpoint, feel free to email me.
No sorry my info comes from a 30year ele. engineer who DESIGNED ele motors. Being able to tuch a ele motor when running is no test of efficiency. It may seem that good but it is not. And ic ene. are about 25% efficient. You got to believe about half of what you read and haly of what you see.
90% efficient! MY GOD THE HUMAN HEART IS'T that good. Electric wast more power than you think. Some are mounted in the wheel of a car and claim 50 horse power! A 5 horse ele. motor would have a armature of about 15 inchs! Electric motors are GREAT but not that great. I think a steam ele. would work very well.
Mike,
First of all, I'm an old Navy (600 lb steamplant) man and an avid railfan so I actually do have a soft spot in my heart for steam engines. We had a 600 lb turbine system.
I also happen to be a 40+ year old electrical engineer so, as much as I love steam, I suspect that, for portable applications, its feasibility is questionable, unlike electric motors.
The reason the ability to touch an electric motor is important is that the inefficiency of a motor is generally caused by the heat that is produced. As you know a great deal of heat is generated by most IC engines and steam engines that can be challenging and expensive to recover. If you can touch a motor, there isn't much wasted energy since it is all going into the mechanical work being done.
The efficiency of the electric motor is why a modern electric car such as the EV1 and the Tesla can go 120 and 240 miles per charge (respectively) while the batteries (which hold very little energy per mass than gasoline) in them hold only about the equivalent of 1 and 2 gallons (respectively) of gas.
It really is easy with electric motors. They can easily be over 90% efficient. Look around yourself. Go ahead and google "electric motor efficiency" don't take my word for it..
240 miles ! at what speed 20 mph? - If what you say is true your EV1 would be everywhere Gas cars would all be in museums; but there not because they do not work. I checked your web address and saw the web page on ele motors at 110 % effiency, It looked like cold fusion to me. My problem is the first and second laws of thermodynamics - look that up. And i looked at the ele motors on my CNC machine at work, a ele DRILL and my weed wacker - they ALL got pretty HOT. PS a soft spot for steam has nothing to do with liking steam cars i just think its a better way to go and i live in ILLINOIS and have seen 50 below 0 temp. how do you heat a all ele car?
Did you all know that in 1933 there was a steam powered air plane! it did fly ( look it up on U TUBE ) built by besler systems - pretty efficient steam got off the ground!
Mike,
You're a stubborn one, I gotta admit but I like your skepticism - that's healthy. Don't let yourself get duped by nonesense. Demand to see proof!!
That ~240 miles per charge for the Tesla is alegedly with the EPA combined cycle and their new drivetrain 1.5. I haven't measured it myself since I don't yet have a Roadster.
Did I mention that the Tesla Roadster can accelerate from 0 to 60 in less than 4 seconds as well?
Regarding the EV1, you're 100% right that were they not all taken off the road and crushed (http://ev1-club.power.net/archive/031219/jpg/after2.htm), they probably would have completely disrupted the auto industry. This is, of course only one of the possible reasons they and the entire auto industry killed the Electric cars that they built and released in California in the late '90's. Rent or buy "Who Killed the Electric Car", (http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/) the documentary that goes over the whole episode.
I did drive the EV1 from LA, CA to Palo Alto, CA back in 2002 with charging stops in Camarillo, Santa Barbara, Santa Maria, San Luis Obispo, and Salinas. You can look on a map to see that San Luis Obispo and Salinas are about 135 miles apart. This means that I must have gotten at least that much range off of a charge.
110% efficiency, is a problem - it can't work. 90%, however can. Yep, your drill or weed wacker does get hot but compare your electric weed wacker with a gas model and tell me which gets hotter.
Heating an electric car certainly can't be done using the waste heat from the engine like an ICE car. The EV1 had a heat pump, Ford made an EV Ranger that actually had a diesel burning heater. You'll have to ask some of the folks who are getting Tesla Roadsters that live in IL about how well their heater handles the load. I don't think any of them will be delivered to IL until early 2009 though.
You're right that steam powered air planes have been tried. So have electric ones. Of course it was an electric one that set the world record for altitude at 96,000 in 2001 and is one of the hottest spyplanes in the US military today (http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS147862+07-Feb-2008+BW200...). That steam plane barely flew.
Actually, one could say that the B52 is a hybrid steam/jet plane since it can use water injection into its jets to augment the thrust on takeoff. They didn't do it too much since it shortened the engine life but steam clearly does have a place in the world.
I'm hoping to pass through Chicago next summer in my Tesla Roadster. Perhaps you'll be able to see it for yourself. In the mean time, I welcome you to surf around the web and look for credible evidence of the greatness of the electric motor.
Electric hybrids and all electrics are two different animals for sure. I love the Tesla roadster and the fact that it was built with off the shelf technology. I believe that as batteries continue change in breakthroughs and advances, we will eventually become an electric car society.
Are we there yet? Not by a longshot. But we are certainly heading there quickly, as we should be. But the bulk of people will not buy an electric that cannot at least duplicate or exceed the mileage in an IC driven car. Batteries will have to be charged on demand on as quickly as filling a tank of gas (perhaps a combo of the new ultracapacitors and high density batteries). It also must be comfortable with all the modern day amenities.
Until that happens, MOST people (not all) will not sign a 5 year loan on an electric.
The other end of this equation is that there are more than a half billion cars on the road around the world, it would be devastating to just suddenly dump them all (nor could that happen either). So we as a society, must seek out transitional methods to help us move from one tech to another.
Hence the beauty of a hybrid. I am personally biased towards the water hybrid (not steam) that uses simple electrolysis to increase the efficiency of gasoline or diesel. It works now, saves gas, and cleans up the exhaust. It's a simple, elegant solution that the majority of people can instigate today, as we move toward an electric society.
It's a very utopian idea that has been eloquently discussed here that we can move away from the ICE and transition towards the "electric" car. I've been a fan of Telsa Motors ever since I happened upon them, and I award them serious kudos for their efforts in the face of what I'm afraid I can only say are fairly nefarious political opposition, as well as, some serious hurdles, both financially and technologically.
Truth is likely as hybridman2 says, we'll have to get faster charging and also a lower entry-level cost. Tesla Motors have plans to make that happen, and, yes, there is the Volt on the way. These are great things, and I'm all for using the brown's gas in the ICE-vehicles that currently exist but I also think that we need to keep generating new ideas. It's been discussed that there are ideas for steam-powered vehicles/hybrids, but action is really what's needed.
Having said all that, what about a brown's gas steam vehicle? I'm sure at least some of you have seen the "HHO-powered" car, which I believe still utilizes some ICE technology, correct me if I am wrong. However, the same principles that allow for the HHO welding apparatus could potentially be utilized to create an extremely high temperature very rapidly. Would this create a need for a higher level of boiler reinforcement? I have just given myself a royal headache looking at the issues with specific-heat-related issues with brown's gas, but we used it for heating during the depression and if it couldn't be used for on-demand, variegated heating as in the Doble, couldn't it at the least be used as a near 0% waste source for battery charging in hybrid vehicles with extremely low operating and maintenance costs?
What's your cost for fueling? Distilled water? Maybe some electrolytic catalyst like aluminum, potassium or magnesium? Any thoughts?
Alex, I think if we combined the energy in Brown's gas with a modified steam boiler it could have interesting results. We actually plan on doing some research into this area, especially during the superheated steam cycle. I don't know if it would work in the initial boiler though.
HHO gas is an unusual beast. The water torches you mentioned don't weld steel with the same efficiency as a gas/acetylene, but yet they can instantly sublimate tungsten or change brick. It's a strange phenomenon that many are still experimenting with, especially when you can actually touch the tip of the torch without burning yourself.
The same torch that can cut trough tungsten, can be held on water and it won't boil, which brings me back around again to viability in steam engines.
It will take a shift from the norm to get it to work, but I believe it's possible...
Bob
Transitional Technologies, LLC
I'm a student at the James Madison University Alternative Fuel Vehicle Lab. As a student, this concept has been brought up many times and I am in the process of researching and drawing up a plan to build this type of concept for a project next year. If you would like to bring input and help with the project just shoot me an email.
I am very impressed with Cyclone Power as described in its website. However, I am really puzzled if it is really so successful, why there has not been any automakers to invest in the technology and to bring it into practical applications?
Are there still major unresolved practical problems?
Based on the website, it seems that it is meant for direct drive rather than steam-electric hybrid.
Could someone shed some light?
Thank you.
I can understand a persons need to get to work on time
so how about just running a small engine to power the generator to recharge the batteries and use the heat from the burned gas to heat the water to boiling point
also water cooled engines by-product is heat ,cooled by water
so we turn the heat into hot water,close to steam then heat it the rest of the way with the hot exhaust
when the water is boiling we can shut off the gas engine and use the exhaust {with fuel and igniter } to continue boiling the water
the steam turns the turbine the turbine and the ic motor are both connected to the generator
the generator charges the batteries
we use recumbant breaking {flywheel to generator breaking}
take the steam and condense it back to water to be recycled
alcohol is our fuel and when the car is at rest the roof can provide
solar battery maintanance
a tri powerd hybred
Ok here is a better car to choose how about the air car it run on pressure. now if some one could build a onbord electrila system that would compress the air for its chambers and allow the car to keep runnign it run hundreds of mile before it need a air break. LOL
but seriously why buiuld steam when in france they have the air car. the usa want to incorperate a gas engine to make the car go 100 mpg. goes to show you whatthis countries directions are. We need to focus on air car. its clean air and now polution of any kind. plus the fact that there is a way to run an altenator to it.
as of steam my only factor to this would be to kame it run with eletric. given there is a way to heat elements up to allow pressure to run the engine. one might want to look into wateless heater tanks that are eleactric. you might find that this product could help as to how the car can get pressure.
too many factors to think about. but my choice would be air car. it has drw backs such ans slow take off and no gunning it. so we must take into consideration that we will have to let go of guning a car in the future if we are to make it in this world.
We think we have the answer, at least we are trying to provide a practical power source that produces electric, steam, and convensional power for vehicles of any kind. We have patented an invention that needs more funding for development and production. But we are convinced of the importance of this improvement to efficiency and environmental concerns. It can run on any fuel and is small and solves many problems that have limited the use of steam power in recent years.
Please help generate interest and visibility of this invention, visit http://www.realworldio.com and http://www.youtube.com/user/jedareed
Thank you.
The electric steam power car, Van, Truck, Bus, Train can work. It's just a matter of setting up a Company via interested Investors. What we could do is scan the world for companies who make specific parts and ask the producing company if they will donate the product they make to be used in our Electric Steam Powered Car.
This will would be a win win...because they know it is for a specific purpose, and they will be part owners to the development. No money is put at risk...except for delivery of goods to the assembly location.
I am most certain people would come forward to see its development.
The main issue is to decide on the type of design and what we need to build it.
It would be easy to get the car frame, and tires, then assemble the engine process. What? Batteries keep a thermos-tank always hot, as the steam and/or any type of nonflammable gas could circulate the electric turbine to keep the batteries charged. In fact any other inflammable gas would be more preferred than water, because the boiling point is much lower for it to turn to steam, requiring less battery energy to create the boil.
Need to decide whether the steam powers the car, or the steam is only used to power the generator which powers the electric motors, and recharges the battery.
Remember we also will have the option for wind power to power small wind generators as well located in/on various spots on the vehicle. We also can include solar panels as well, on the trunk lid, or hood, and top of the vehicle, for even more energy backup.
Wheels can have frictionless generators attached axels, that spin freely because of opposing force magnetic bearings. This is a big plus in operational reliability.
Now think of this... It will work....I have no doubts,...and then the race is on....that meaning other applications for its use....such as using in airplanes... Can you imagine the RPM's you will get from a wind power jet generator affixed to the wings.....instead of the present jet fuel powered engines they use now? I think of it as the Steam Powered Concordia....which I believe could break air speed records. If they broke the land speed records with steam on the Salt Lake Flats...think of it in the air...
How grand a technological achievement...
People interested can contact me....we can setup the objectives to move forward.
I am djermano@yahoo.com
Dom
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