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  1. #11
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    I share your frustration

    I share your frustration. As hybrid car owners we are doing something for cleaner air, less noise, less oil dependence and we are testing new technology at our own expense. Until recently we believed we were recognized and rewarded for this. Let's do something for the next hybrid car buyers.

    I encourage you to actively push the policymakers to address this issue. Please write to your representatives to urge AMT reform and to provide clearer guidance on the AMT-hybrid tax credit. The concept “tentative” AMT is very tricky.

    Please raise awareness of this issue. It has implications beyond the hybrid tax credit for many Americans. Please write to everybody who might help; write to TV and radio broadcasts, online forums, and perhaps, to the editor to your local newspaper. I truly believe that increased public awareness and pressure on decision makers will make it more likely that the federal hybrid tax credit will be made exempt from the AMT (not for 2006, too late) and, perhaps, the AMT will be reexamined.

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  3. #12
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    Believe me being in sales and the top Performer in Hybrid sale on the East Coast ........... my clients have been upset and mad at this developement ........ We are doing something ......... calling in markers and such. One of my clients has done this :

    " ( quote) solid car, you're a stand-up guy. it was the hit of jessica's bridal shower. I gave the Grateful Dead a loud stereo workout later. the ride is tremendous, almost like a Lexus..............Senator Boxer, who owns 2 Priuses, is a very good friend of ours (her daughter has worked for me several times) and she is Chair of the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee. I'll talk with her and her chief of staff about the legislation below...........(end quote)"

    It works, if you work it .......... if everyone just drops one pebble in the pond, ect......... I hate being philosophical (sp)..........

    Let's go people!!!!!! Get

    TQ
    Internet Sales
    (571) 276-7548

  4. #13
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    Mar 2007
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    Are you kidding?

    You've already received FREE cash from the federal government courtesy of me (and countless other working class, childless Americans) and you've got the nerve to whine about this? A heartfelt "thank you" would be more appropriate.

    Indignant parents, many of which have incomes 2 times my own, screaming for more and more entitlements makes me ill. Live within your means or don't breed. I really can't afford to support your kids and I really can't understand why I'm expected to take vastly more financial responsibility for them (in terms of tax burden) than you. Did I miss something? Is my disproportionate contribution towards the education and development of your children considered a pre-payment for future services? When your kid grows up and becomes a heart surgeon, will my operation be considered "paid in full" before I get to the table? Nope...

    As for the hybrid credit, I'm all for it, provided it's not stacked up over undeserved entitlements like the child tax "credit". Encouraging people to buy more efficient cars spurs demand, and in turn competition. The end result would be a good thing: less expensive, more environmentally friendly vehicles. Encouraging people to breed by fleecing the childless isn't such a good thing. Kids are an economic and environmental liability, not a boon.

    http://www.helium.com/tm/147727

  5. #14
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    Awww, shucks...come on guys! Our government doesn't lie to us!

    And, neither did the Ashhole salesman who said it was LEGAL to drive in the HOV lanes in Maryland! Maybe that buttnugget piece of crap can pay the $90 fine.

    Something I realized today:

    People don't question things when they are in their favor, HOWEVER we do question them when they are not. Question everything because what works in your favor today may work against it tomorrow.

    Boo to salesman and the government.

    All my love,
    Crybrid

  6. #15
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    Looks like Zakarious is a proud crybrid owner too! Whoop de doooo!

  7. #16
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    As someone who purchased two hybrid cars in 2006 specifically for the purpose of knowing I would be getting a credit - I am outraged. I'm computing my taxes and can't believe this particular credit is being treated differently from the others. I don't recall anyone saying a tentative minimum tax liability would be calculated first and then compared to what your tax liability is after your child tax credits were taken into account. Yes I'll be writing my senator and such. Yes I'll see if a class action can be taken on this. This is just very very wrong!

  8. #17
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    Did my taxes today and sadly discoverd the big gotcha on the sham hybrid tax credit. Spent the afternoon figuring how this farce of a credit turned out to be worth $0 in my case. Here's the letter I wrote to my congressman as a result. I urge others to write theirs. The deceitful republican crowd is out. Lets make the democrats do the right thing.

    April 7, 2007

    The Honorable Steny H. Hoyer
    United States House of Representatives
    1705 Longworth House Office Building
    Washington, D.C. 20515-2005

    Dear Representative Hoyer,

    As residents of the 5th Congressional District in Maryland, we are writing to express outrage at the deceptive manner in which the Alternative Motor Vehicle Credit (AMVC) was implemented by Congress in the Energy Policy Act of 2005. We are also asking you to offer legislation that would remedy the unfair and misleading aspects of this credit. The credit was touted as an example of the U.S. government’s commitment to support the use of more fuel-efficient automobiles. This is a critically important objective that we support, both to reduce our dependence on foreign oil and to lessen the rate at which we increase atmospheric CO2 due to its role in global warming. However, because of the way our complex tax code is structured, the credit is in reality a non-existent sham for many American middle-income couples with children filing a joint return.

    Let us first give you some background information and then explain the tax implementations of this credit as we understand them. We purchased a 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid in July, 2006. Before purchasing the vehicle, we referred to the Internal Revenue Service documentation available on their web site regarding the AMVC where we learned the vehicle was eligible for a $2,100 credit. It was because the credit was available, and partially offset the increased cost of the Civic Hybrid as compared to a regular Civic, that we decided to purchase the Hybrid. The IRS web site provided detailed information about eligible vehicles, purchase requirements, and the phase out of the credit with increasing unit sales by the various manufacturers offering hybrid vehicles. The web site even urged consumers to “purchase early” before the phase out provisions reduced the amount of the credit. But there was no information presented on the manner in which the credit would be treated for tax purposes and the form used to compute the tax consequences (Form 8910) was not yet available.

    In preparing our 2006 taxes, we now come to learn that we are in fact NOT eligible for the credit. Why? Most tax credits that are used by typical families (nonrefundable personal credits), such as the Child Tax Credit, Child and Dependent Care Expense Credit, Elderly and Disabled Credit, Education Credit, and Residential Energy Credit, are straightforward in their application. You subtract the amount of the credits from your total tax liability (whether that be your Regular Tax or the Alternative Minimum Tax). On IRS Form 1040 it is where Lines 47 through 54 are subtracted from Line 46. This is simple and understandable, and consistent with what should be meant by a tax credit. Nonrefundable personal credits have functioned this way since 2000.

    Not so the AMVC. We spent several hours unraveling why the tax preparation software we use was reducing our $2,100 credit to $0. Unknown to us, and we suspect most families, the AMVC is treated differently than nonrefundable personal credits for tax purposes. Even though we are not subject to the Alternative Minimum Tax, it comes into play when computing the applicable amount of the AMVC. The AMVC cannot be used to reduce your taxes owed below your Tentative Minimum Tax, computed as part of the Alternative Minimum Tax determination on Form 6251. For our family, our Regular Tax Before Credits is $11,142 and is larger than our Tentative Minimum Tax of $9,321. Therefore, our Alternative Minimum Tax is $0 and we are not subject to the AMT. However, our nonrefundable personal credits (in our case a Child Tax Credit of $2,700) reduce our Net Regular Tax to $8,442. Because our net tax is below our Tentative Minimum Tax, we are not eligible for the AMVC and it is reduced to $0.

    This application of the AMVC is because of the obtuse language of the Internal Revenue Code, Section 30B, Paragraph (g)(2) authorized in the Energy Policy Act of 2005. That paragraph defines the application of the AMVC with other personal credits:
    The credit . . . shall not exceed the excess (if any) of--
    (A) the regular tax liability (as defined in section 26(b)) reduced by the sum of the credits allowable under subpart A and sections 27 and 30, over (B) the tentative minimum tax for the taxable year.

    It is this treatment of the Alternative Motor Vehicle Credit in a manner unlike the credits most familiar to American families that we find so deceptive. For many two-earner, middle-income families with children, their Net Regular Tax is below their Tentative Minimum Tax, making the AMVC a worthless fiction. Adding to the unfairness, the number of families for which this is the case will increase in the future because the AMT is not inflation-adjusted. The AMVC for the most part is really only a credit for poor people, rich people and a small subset of middle-income earners who do not already have credits of the kind that supercede the AMVC.

    After realizing we were not eligible for the AMVC, we searched the internet and found a number of web sites and blogs that described this problem, which came to light as people began preparing their 2006 tax returns. However, we are terribly disappointed to find that U.S. Government web sites continue to be silent on this point and do not describe the tax aspects of this credit. In particular, the main web sites of the Department of Energy and the Internal Revenue Service devoted to this credit have no information on this matter:
    Department of Energy
    http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/tax_hybrid.shtml
    http://www.energy.gov/taxbreaks.htm
    Internal Revenue Service
    http://ftp.irs.gov/newsroom/article/...107766,00.html
    http://ftp.irs.gov/newsroom/article/...157557,00.html
    http://ftp.irs.gov/newsroom/article/...157632,00.html

    Please remedy this situation by changing the Alternative Motor Vehicle Credit so that it is treated for tax purposes like nonrefundable personal credits that are not rendered worthless by the Alternative Minimum Tax. As it exists now, obscure in its tax consequences and lacking clear explanation of its real effect, it is a shameful bait and switch that only serves to further undermine taxpayer confidence in the fairness of our tax code and the integrity of our governing officials. Thank you for your consideration of this matter.

  9. #18
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    Apr 2007
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    Our Government Lies to Us!

    Yes, our government does lie to us all the time. Yes this tax was developed to help but with limits to the tax consquences to the Federal treasury.

    You want to know who opposed the more liberal tax credits for these gas saving, less polluting cars ??

    I will give you one big Hint. The leader now of this group that opposed the more liberal use of this tax credit, just made a TV apperance to Syria.

    Yes, the democrats voted down the more liberal use of this credit, so as not to hurt some other wasteful spending programs. They voted against any carryovers to the next year, and making this the number one tax credit on the 1040 list.

    So remember who hates TAX Cuts the most, the LIBERAL DEMS.

    I have been following the legislation of car credits since the Ford Pinto, and there are always these watered down tax credits, no matter how important the cause. Just remember the dire times of the Gas lines in the 70's when Jimmy Carter was in office, and before. Well they did'nt do much then about cutting back on gas usage with brilliant legisilation, and the Dems have been in control most of the time. We do need a large voice to let them know how important this is to people to help in changing our wasteful ways.

    SPEAK OUT EVERYONE!!

  10. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Civic_Fan View Post
    Did my taxes today and sadly discoverd the big gotcha on the sham hybrid tax credit. Spent the afternoon figuring how this farce of a credit turned out to be worth $0 in my case. Here's the letter I wrote to my congressman as a result. I urge others to write theirs. The deceitful republican crowd is out. Lets make the democrats do the right thing.
    I bought a Civic Hybrid in December 06 (before the end of the year) so I could get the $2100 tax credit on my 06 taxes. I was aware of the credit phase-out after 60,000 vehicles sold by a manufacturer (which did not impact the Civic) but was completely unaware of the possibility that my credit might affected by the minimum tax and my child tax credits. It certainly was not highlighted in my information sources. I was pretty shocked when Turbotax informed me that I would get zero credit. My first thought was that it must have been some sort of mistake. I had to open up the forms/worksheets to see what was going on and then discovered what was happening.

    It was very frustrating to lose $2100 that I was 100% certain was going to be in my pocket in early 2007. Even if Congress does makes a change to adjust the credit so more people could get it, I assume it is very unlikely they would allow 2006 hybrid purchasers to get the credit.

  11. #20
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    Feb 2007
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    I am curious,

    I am curious,
    How the hybrid car tax credit, applied without the alternative minimum tax (AMT) restriction and taken as a combined loss to the budget, would compare to the federal incentives the oil companies get?
    I do not know what they get (tax credit or something else); it is a dark area to me.

    Does anybody know?

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