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Thread: Prius Start Up Problems
02-06-2011 02:59 AM #71
I have two Prius and a Lexus
I have two Prius and a Lexus hybrid. These are great cars and give better MPG than their immediate competitors; however, Prius battery does give up but not in every Prius vehicle. My first one required jump start a few times due to a defective battery and after 5 years, I changed the battery in a local battery store. My second later year model (2005) was great until 2 days back when extreme cold and freezing weather killed the battery. I need to replace it next week.
What doesn't work-kicking or cursing the car, prayer, cursing the dealer or Toyota as you do have a vehicle that has a technologically advanced electrical system than a 2000 Pickup truck.
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02-07-2011 08:11 AM #72
I have been having the same
I have been having the same problems with my 2004 only today after having it jumped I drove around a while to let the battery re- charge pulled into the driveway, turned off the engine and tried to start it again, no juice at all.
02-19-2011 04:20 AM #73
trainfan56, what the outcome
trainfan56, what the outcome of your dealer's intervention?
02-25-2011 08:17 PM #74
2007 Prius, Owners Manual
2007 Prius, Owners Manual Pages 350 and 351...
"(If ambient temperature is low, such as during winter driving conditions, it may take time until the "READY" light is on.)
The engine may not start even with the "READY" light is on.
You may hear a motor sound in the engine compartment when the brake pedal is depressed with the hybrid system off.
When the hybrid system is started or stopped, you may hear a sound coming from the hybrid battery in the luggage compartment. However, this does not indicate any trouble."
So, it appears there is a problematic temperature sensitivity in the Prius design that Toyota knows about as explicated in the Prius Owners Manual. What the design issue consists of in the design appears to be brought out by the battery capacity/age, battery charge level and lower ambient temperature, currently this defect is not published to the public nor diagnostically checked by the dealership. Toyota "covered" the issue with the notification in the Owner's Manual.
On Page 355:
"Check the condition of the 12 volt battery and cables.
Cold temperatures reduce the capacity of any 12 volt battery, so it must be in top shape to provide enough power for winter starting. ...Your Toyota dealer will be pleased to check the level of charge."
So it would appear that "by design" the Prius OEM lead acid battery is of an inferior capacity and capability for certain temperature conditions "off the shelf" in a new Prius.
I am going to order in the OPTIMA D51 with installation kit ($180.00) and get past the "design issue" with the low capacity 12V GS NIPPON DENCHI OEM Battery($250.00) used in the design by Toyota,, "engineers".
02-25-2011 10:46 PM #75
Followup with hair dryer and
Followup with hair dryer and boost/charger...
Reconsdering the fact that I do not know what the actual system configuration
is that causes the problem and given that the temperature is at freezing where
I am, I cranked up the old trouble shoot the facts problem solver.
Temperature 31 degrees F, car temperature at 31 inside and outside (snow on car)
12 Volt battery, low as indicated by dim dome light and the fact that the car is
otherwise power dead.
Experiment, prove that the problem is the battery and not the temperature.
1. Put a battery boost/charger on the fuse block, listen to the relays clicking.
2. Wait 5 minutes, car still malfs with flashing dash lights and no computer display.
3. Measure dash tempeature at 31 degrees F, Turn on hair dryer in passenger seat
(I'm bundled up like nanook of the north).
4. Monitor temperature rise in seating area with infared temperature detector as it rises.
(about 15 minutes and the temp is a toasty 62 degrees F, battery has been on charge all this time)
(Being impatient I tried several times to start the car without results other than above.)
5. Monitor the Dash Temperature as it rose to 50 degrees F, the computer display came on,
the indicatior lights stopped flashing. Okay...
6. Turned off the hair dryer, turned on the defrosters(battery load), everything shutdown, okay.
7. Turned on the hair dryer, turned off the defrosters, after a few minutes the computer display came back,
then I started the car engine. The Hybrid Battery indicated completely discharged at this time. Ran
the car for about 10 minutes until the Battery indicated charged.
This whole evolution took about 20 minutes, remember the booster/charger was running the whole time.
8. I measured the dash temperature it was 61 degrees while running.
9. Turned off the car, waiting for Temperature to drop. Won't have long to wait.
There may be a temperature triggered "discharge race condition between the quiesent condition of the computer and the 12V battery".
The next step is to get the computer "cold" while the battery is at charge and see what happens.
Next step test, Computer in dash will not get cold! while there is power stored in the Hybrid Battery! Dash surface is at 61 degrees F and Ambient temperature is 25 degrees F, Computer in the dash temperature is 77 degrees F, Hybrid Battery charge is at 4 bars down from the "turnoff" power level of 5 bars. Car starts fine!
How is it that the computer appears to be drawing power from the Hybrid Battery when the System is "Off"? Or is something else "stealing power" from the Hybrid Battery at low temperatures?
Gonna have to get the specs, somehow on this computer and its implementation with the power system.
02-26-2011 08:43 PM #76
Chapter 3. Charged the
Charged the battery, drove the car, parked it out overnight. Temperature this morning was 18 degrees F.
Started up in the alternate diagnostic mode.
1. Battery charge at 12.2, computer in dash temp at 18 degrees F.
2. Started up normal ops by pressing the brake and then the Power/On switch, noted that the Volts dropped to 11.1 momentarily.(Indicates that I will be having to change the battery due to low capacity). Charge started up at 14.3 volts. Observed the temperature rise slowly in the computer console as the interior temperature rose to 33, the computer console rose to 35.
So based on the learning of the previous day of discharged battery and Hybrid battery discharged and low temperature, the computer appears to have an area of low voltage and low temperature sensitivity that "feeds on" the available battery capacity issues. When the computer is in this set of conditions and gets into this mode(ie low available voltage combined with low temperature) it still trys to do its designed function and with an external charger/booster applied as the power source (14 volts, 12 amp max), as a result draws a fair amount of power (probably through on board voltage regulators operating at low voltage and high currents) which will, because of very decreased efficiency generate a fair amount of heat. The sequencing of the voltage regulators on the computer board may also be confused due to the absence of normal bus voltages( low battery voltage, no Hybrid voltage) This power regulation heat probably accounts for the very high temperature differential seen in previous observations. (ie 77 degrees on the computer in dash versus ambient of 32 degrees) This condition did not repeat under just low temperature conditions (18 degrees ambient).
So bottom line...replace the wimpy Toyota 4 year old OEM battery with a robust deep discharge battery from Primea. In the mean time, putting a trickle charger on the beastie overnight or for long idle periods will ensure that the low voltage/ low temperature operating region is avoided.
02-26-2011 08:54 PM #77
The brakes in the Prius have
The brakes in the Prius have an interesting start up cycle. Get in the car and press down on the brake pedal, hold it and listen and feel the pressure/resistance "pump up"in the pedal. You should have heard a relay pickup in the engine compartment and the sounds of the brake system pressurizing.
This draws a bit of power off the12V battery bus...on a low capacity or older battery this initial dip in voltage may be low enough at first to prevent the "Power/On" sequence(ie pressing the start button) from acting to "Start" the car.
Hold the brake down till it pumps itself up, then push the Power/On button, this will extend your ability to operate the car for awhile longer. Oh yeah, research replacement batteries for your Prius 12V battery.
02-26-2011 09:15 PM #78
Actually the replacement
Actually the replacement battery is from Optima D51.
03-20-2011 07:04 PM #79
2005 Prius, over 80,000
2005 Prius, over 80,000 miles. Within a few months of the car going over 80,000 I had my aux battery tested by Toyota and they said it was fine. But recently, I have had the same problem getting the car started. After 80,000 miles, I know exactly how to start the car...depress brake fully and push power button. I get the red triangle and message that the Parking brake is not in the proper position and move the car to a flat place. My garage is completely flat...I press multiple buttons and try everything to re start and it only decides to restart and work in its own good time. Of course Toyota told me that they never heard of this...I told them to blog Toyota problems so they don't waste my time and money trying to diagnose this when I go to get this fixed on Tuesday March 22nd. After reading all your similar problems, does anyone have a definitive solution so I can tell Toyota how to fix this?
03-30-2011 06:21 PM #80
Ok, my wife let her
Ok, my wife let her coworker's son use her prius to jump start their car. According to my wife, the car died right when they hooked up the cables. I'm assuming they mixed the cables around. She got it to work and drove it about 2 blocks and it died on her again. She said the main battery had no bars on the monitor. When I went to look at it, 2 fuses were blown and the 100A fusible link was blown. The 12V battery is 2 months old and still has power. Did she drain the main battery? Or will it recharge when I put the new fuses and fusible link in? I can't see the monitor because I can't get any power to it. And it's dead in a liquor store parking lot, so now I have to get it towed. Anyone with any answers please let me know. Will it work if the fuses are replaced?