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  1. #1

    hybrid versus direct injected gas


    Last week I was in Europe and got to drive a
    VW Golf 2005 direct injected gas engine tanked with sulphur free gasoline.
    Unfortunately I wasnt able to check the fuel consumption, but I was told by the owner it was
    doing 20-25 % better than his previous Golf
    which has the indirect injection system we are used to.
    Also noticed while the car was idling the cooling fan did not start. This is because the fuel-air mix
    is as low as 1:64 versus 1:14.7 for the unefficient manifold injected engine.
    In hybrid cars this inefficiency is offset by letting
    the battery run the car when moving in slow traffic or standing. However this comes at a premium price($3000 and up). Direct injected
    engines can do much the same, but with a fraction of the price (less than $800). However
    in order to run lean the DI engine need sulphur
    free gas coming is September this year.
    Another advantage with DI is that engine runs
    much cleaner and oil change intervals can be
    doubled. The japanese had these cars and the
    sulphur free gas for many years. Some European countries the last few years. Are we wasting our money on hybrids in order to save
    maybe 5-10% over the DI.
    Read above link.

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  3. #2

    hybrid versus direct injected gas

    Good point Bjorn. I read someplace that is one of the
    reasons hybrids are not selling in Europe (besides
    all the great diesels). Many european and japanese
    brands offer direct injected gasoline cars and with
    the low sulphur gasoline they get close to a hybrids
    mileage, but for a much smaller premium. Most
    direct injected engines add $700 to the purchase
    price versus $3000 plus for a hybrid. The math is
    is in the favor of the DI.

  4. #3

    hybrid versus direct injected gas

    Sounds to me like a great way to make a hybrid even more efficient, too. Why would you have to choose between the two technologies?

    Actually, three...make it a direct-injected, plug-in gas-electric hybrid.

  5. #4

    hybrid versus direct injected gas

    "Sounds to me like a great way to make a hybrid even more efficient..."

    And even more expensive...

  6. #5

    hybrid versus direct injected gas

    Dorn....thats the point...the hybrid techology is
    too expensive and complex so the inexpensive
    DI techology is sufficient. Since the difference in
    fuel saving between a hybrid and DI is not enough to pay extra for a hybrid drive train.
    Maybe a pure EV as a second car is the solution.

  7. #6

    hybrid versus direct injected gas

    I think you folks are missing what is happening with hybrids. Today, their COST isn't much more than pure ICE. There are a few reasons why their PRICE is more:
    1. People are willing to pay more for the clean, efficient technology so the auto manufacturers are happy to accept their rewards.
    2. There is a shortage of hybrids and a lot of demand, hence business 101 says the price will be higher
    3. The auto manufacturers are still amortizing development costs for the new hybrid technology
    4. Batteries are still a bit expensive although their costs are dropping rapidly as production volumes increase.
    Eventually, hybrid prices (especially Plug-in Hybrids) will be comparable or even less than pure ICE because the transmission and a lot of the complexity of the ICE to enable efficient and clean operation across the speed range can be removed.

  8. #7

    hybrid versus direct injected gas

    No I understand... and while people with extra income can justify contributing to the automakers research and development payback fund, some of us are looking for cheaper alternatives that get good gas milage. Now when hybrids are common, affordable and don't care a price premium because they're new/in-demand/over-hyped or whatever, then I might consider one.

  9. #8

    hybrid versus direct injected gas

    And for the same reason the the diesels are overpriced because the demand is much higher than supply. Try to buy a new or used VW TDI.
    They go like hotcakes and prices are accordingly.
    I bought my 2002 TDI used 2 years ago and 35000miles later I was offered $1500 more than
    what I paid for it in 2004!!!!!!!!
    The same go for fuel efficient small gas cars so it
    is not just the hybrid cars.
    Very few hybrids are sold in Europe despite that
    most places the gasoline price is over $6 a gallon.
    Why isnt it selling. It is too expensive and it is
    not heavely subsidised as it is in the US.
    Diesels are much cheaper to build even with
    trap filters or other pollution controls.

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