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  1. #31
    Guest

    A manual hybrid with decent hp

    Also it should be mentioned that the manual transmissions DID get better mpg than the automatic cvt's. The old HCH and the Insight were both offered with manual and CVT, and the 5-speed did better for both cars.

    The mileage (and performance) would both be better if they offered a six-spped manual instead of five.

    The Civic HX is offered with both the 5-speed and the CVT, so that might be your best bet for some of you. Again, the manual gets better mpg than the CVT.

    Also, I read www.epinions.com reviews of the HX, and many of the CVT cars said that the transmission is not reliable (it has been offered for 10 years), and I assume it is the same CVT unit in the hybrids, so from the the epinions on it, I don't like the mandatory CVT in the Honda hybrids (at least the HX is available with the 5-spped but they should offer six-speed).

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  3. #32
    Guest

    A manual hybrid with decent hp

    qq,
    I hate to disagree with you but I'll go on record stating that while I like manual transmissions over automatics, I hate 6-speeds. I rented many versions of 6-speed over the past year and can say that you spend your whole drive shifting for little actual gain. I haven't seen any studies that indicate any significant fuel savings for the added complexity and weight of adding the 6-speeds. Until I see anything to the contrary, I'll stack the 6-speed up to being just another pathetic greenwashing stunt by European auto manufacturers who refuse to admit that adding an electric drivetrain is the only thing that makes any sense.
    Also, an optimized hybrid will only have a single, fixed gear, with no way to shift, not more gears. They just need to allow the transmission divisions of the major car companies to get a slice of the sales so we continue to see transmissions shoved into hybrids.

  4. #33
    Guest

    A manual hybrid with decent hp

    I have to say that after a 1.5 years of driving nothing except automatics, I finally got my 5spd manual VW Golf TDI (diesel). The feeling of finally driving a manual again was so exciting. I was right about my love of manuals. I tried to like the automatics for my wife's sake (got rid of my old manual car a month after we got married), but I just couldn't. Perhaps it's because I learned to drive in a manual, and that's mostly what I've driven for the ten years I've been driving, I don't know. If ex-ev1 is right about car companies continuing to put transmissions in hybrids, perhaps when more and varied types of hybrids are developed, there will be at least a couple mild hybrids where a manual works well, like the Insight or first generation civic hybrid. I've heard a rumor that the Insight power train is going to be used in a Honda Fit hybrid. Perhaps the manual version will be offered?? That would be a cool hybrid!

  5. #34
    Guest

    A manual hybrid with decent hp

    Why I need an maual transmission: I go offroad somewhat. Mud, slick grass, pot-holed country "driveways" and so forth are simply not doable with an automatic.

  6. #35
    Guest

    A manual hybrid with decent hp

    For you folks who like the control of the manual transmission but the economy of the electric, I can offer you a glimpse of a great future. I got a chance to drive AC Propulsion's new eBox recently. The eBox is a Toyota Scion xB converted to full electric. In addition to ACP's awesome power (0-60 mph in ~7 sec, 90 mph governed top speed, 140 - 160 mile range), the eBox has adjustable regenerative braking.
    This allows the driver to adjust how agressive the regen is, similiar to selecting a gear for engine braking with a manual transmission. The benefit is that you can get continous adjustment rather than just the choices of gears. Novices and the unadventurous can simply set the regen to be some moderate amount of drag, essentially identical to what an automatic transmission provides when you let off the gas. More exerienced drivers can adjust the regen from zero regenerative braking (pure coasting) to pretty heavy drag. With fairly aggressive regen, one can drive with just the accelerator and almost never use the brakes - accelerator down to accelerate and let up off for the desired amount of deceleration. In slow-and-go or stop-and-go traffic, this can be fantastic. In mountain driving, you can simply pedal the amount of speed you want while ascending or descending.
    I think most manual transmission afficianados will really enjoy this feature that is possible with the electric drivetrain. I just hope that it gets added to hybrids and new BEV's.

  7. #36

    Hybrid Manual 2004

    I share the sentiments of the drivers who prefer manual trans.
    I will only drive stick shift. I put on alot of miles so I really wanted to find a hybrid. I had to fly out to Seattle and drive back to Jersey to get a 2004 Honda Civic last summer (2006). I insisted on getting a Certified Used Honda. Although I hope have many more miles on this car, I will no doubt go for a more comfortable diesel next time. The civic is very uncomfortable after awhile and I want a sunroof. Yet, Honda has been very accommodating. They are very nice to Hybrid owners.

  8. #37
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    0
    If you live in a northern climate, the ability to use the transmission to manage the amount of torque available is a tremendous advantage. Yes this can be done to some extent in an automatic; but, it is neither as intuitive nor as thorough as the control offered by a manual transmission.

    Want to stop tire spin on ice? Gear up early. The loss of torque reduces the risk of tire spin.

    Gearing down, in essence, engine breaking, is possible in an automatic.

    So, automatics give you one option but not the other. Ironically, from the stand-point of a hybrid, its the energy inefficient driving option (engine breaking) that an automatic transmission provides.

    When I suspect that I might have to stop or slow down, my first instinct is to push the clutch, there are lots of situations where I coast. I suppose, I could do this with an automatic; but, it is an instinctive part of driving a standard.

    Standards, in city driving, spend a surprisingly large amount of time simply coasting. If there was a cut-off on the electric motor when the clutch was pressed, you would have zero energy consumption during that coasting period. I don't know the hybrid technology and maybe there is something in the technology that accomplishes this. Is there?

    Finally, if it will sell more hybrids, why not offer the option of a manual transmission?

  9. #38
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by workeramongworkers View Post
    I share the sentiments of the drivers who prefer manual trans.
    I will only drive stick shift. I put on alot of miles so I really wanted to find a hybrid. I had to fly out to Seattle and drive back to Jersey to get a 2004 Honda Civic last summer (2006). I insisted on getting a Certified Used Honda. Although I hope have many more miles on this car, I will no doubt go for a more comfortable diesel next time. The civic is very uncomfortable after awhile and I want a sunroof. Yet, Honda has been very accommodating. They are very nice to Hybrid owners.
    You should be in luck... it sounds like there are a slew of new diesel cars getting ready to hit the US market, starting with the latest VW Jetta TDI, then Honda and others following. Should be manual transmissions to go with them...

    P.S. A year later and I still love my 2003 VW Golf TDI 5-speed. Sooooo glad I bought it instead of an automatic hybrid. I've been easily getting 45mpg+ mix driving.

  10. #39
    Guest

    lot of people rather get a

    lot of people rather get a Manual car than a hybrid automatic because the hate automatic if companies start making manual hybrid car like civic or Toyota people buy them more

  11. #40
    Guest

    I currently drive an Acura

    I currently drive an Acura Integra (96) for almost the same set of reasons. I tend to keep my cars for 10 years or more so I'm thinking that environmental consciousness should figure even more heavily in my next purchase. I'm trying to hit at least 100k miles on my car before I replace it but that will happen within the next year. (I'm a fairly low mileage driver (< 8k / yr) if you haven't figured that out.) I am sad that the only manual hybrid is the Civic. At the high end there are some interesting [cvt] options but I hope something more interesting than the current crop of hybrids comes out soon in the mid range. I really like the Acura TL and would love to see a manual hybrid version of it.

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