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  1. #41
    Guest

    Eric - I'm not sure how the

    Eric - I'm not sure how the Acura TL compares to the Acura TSX, but there is supposed to be a diesel engine available starting with the 2009 model TSX - and I don't see why a manual shouldn't be available to go with it. It should be as clean and efficient as a hybrid version would be, and should be a whole lot of fun too!!

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  3. #42
    Guest

    I would just like a 2009

    I would just like a 2009 Scion xB Hybrid, I just don't see wy they didn't make a hybrid in the first place, it would be a great addition to the environment, but i also figured out a new energy 4 cars, When my brother & I were little we tried 2 fine a new energy source for house's, car's, ext. Its also hard 2 make it go global for all cars, especially when I'm only 18 & he's 16

  4. #43

    ok, the car with decent

    ok, the car with decent (actually awesome) hp is now in production, except it doesn't have an archaic manual transmission to slow you down in the quarter mile.
    It's the Tesla Roadster. Brad just opened up a new forum (http://www.hybridcars.com/forums/cars/tesla-roadster) to discus it but this baby does zero to 60 in less than 4 seconds, enough to essentially beat any other production vehicle on the road with maybe a couple of exceptions.
    Its expensive but it definitely beats anything else in its price range - and it uses no petroleum at all.

  5. #44
    Guest

    I drive a 2005 Honda Civic

    I drive a 2005 Honda Civic Hybrid with manual transmission, and it has been a great, trouble-free car. With some adaptation of my driving habits (not a lot, really; mainly downshifting at lower revs and using Econ mode whenever possible), I consistently get 50 mpg on the open highway, 44 mpg in mixed highway/streets, and 38 mpg in very bad traffic. I can do even better on highway trips if I drive 55-60 instead of 70-75. I've driven coast to coast twice, using AC much of the way (summer, southern route), and both trips averaged out at 45 mpg for the 3300 miles, traveling 75-80 most of the way (hey, it's a long boring drive).
    I have no issue with automatics, and I do understand they are mostly more efficient for hybrids; I just prefer to drive standard shift since it keeps me more engaged with the driving and more alert to road conditions. I hate to think what I'm going to do for my next hybrid. I hope they keep making manual trannies for those of us who love them.

  6. #45
    Guest

    You are the only one who

    You are the only one who actually made sense, its not about whats more efficient, it is about the experience of it. I myself will never own another automatic again, i don't need the car to tell me when to shift, and i don't need the computer to drive the car for me and AUTO trans are WAY more prone to failure then manuals.

    Plus if you know how t drive it, most people with the manual transmission hybrids report 10-25 mpg more in their insight/civic hybrids on fueleconomy.gov actual user ratings vs. the estimate.

  7. #46

    Dale, I agree with you on

    Dale,
    I agree with you on the experience and us old guys will always remember fondly snaking through the mountains with a manual tranny, working hard to time the shifts to maintain our speed up the grades or when exiting the turns.
    It will be kind of like comparing riding a horse with driving a car today. Cool, and fun in different ways but a car always beats the horse when you really need it.
    A high performance electric drivetrain will always beat anything with archaic gears and the thrill of the flat power curve will surprise you - mark my words. Once you've driven a real electric, you're ruined and never want to go back - except maybe for the novelty of it now and then.
    Sure, you'll be able to put an underpowered electric motor without enough low-end torque into your hybrid so you'll have an excuse to keep a transmission in it but that will eventually get old, just like whipping out the crank to start your engine - even if that was kind of cool.

    ex-'99EV1, current-'03HCHm5, future-'08Tesla Roadster, and part-time '52MG-TD driver

  8. #47
    Guest

    westcoaster said: "I have no

    westcoaster said:
    "I have no issue with automatics, and I do understand they are mostly more efficient for hybrids; I just prefer to drive standard shift since it keeps me more engaged with the driving and more alert to road conditions. I hate to think what I'm going to do for my next hybrid. I hope they keep making manual trannies for those of us who love them."

    Exactly!! When driving a manual I'm involved, having fun, and much more alert. In an automatic get bored, and just don't pay as much attention. I'm hoping the Europeans will come out with hybrids that include a manual transmission, since the majority of them prefer manuals. The mostly lack of manual transmission options is what turned me off to current hybrids and on to diesels.

  9. #48
    Guest

    I'd like to weigh in, and

    I'd like to weigh in, and say I intend to always purchase and drive manuals, even if it means having a fight every so often with my wife
    I feel much more attached to the road, I enjoy the extra effort and challenge of making the perfect shifts, and I enjoy coasting to stoplights while everyone else is braking.
    I hope some day to own a hybrid or alternatively fueled vehicle, but it MUST have a standard transmission. I enjoyed the discussion on the advantages of diesel, and hope the rumors of honda deploying diesel cars in the US come true.
    Great thread! Cheers

  10. #49

    Folks, We just got our Tesla

    Folks,
    We just got our Tesla Roadster and, while none of you probably will believe me or even understand what I can only tell you, there is a better alternative to a manual transmission - no transmission.
    You really have to experience a performance EV to really know but I'll try to explain as best I can.
    The Tesla offers about 25% regen on the 'gas' pedal (unlike the regen on the brake as is found in all of today's hybrids. The Tesla brakes are conventional disk brakes like any other ICE.
    This means that most driving is done with a single foot, Brakes are only used for emergency stopping and the last mph or so when stopping. There is a point when pushing the 'gas' where the motor freewheels (no power, no regen). Below this point, you get variable drag from the powered rear wheels, above it, you put power to those wheels.
    Performance power turns are accomplished by lightly letting off of the 'gas' to provide a little rear-wheel-only drag to maintain contact with the road (similar to the way tactical drivers use the emergency brake) or, if more g's can be tolerated, adding a little pressure to provide more torque. By not having to worry about shifting, you can concentrate on what's most important: exactly how much the wheels are slipping to get max speed and with both hands on the wheel, you can hold your lines much steadier and smoother. I'm not completely sure how the freewheel point will affect vehicle dynamics but I expect to find out EVentually.
    Sure, a manual is fun to play with but if you are really looking at optimizing your vehicle dynamics control, the direct, positive, linear control of torque with one foot is incredible.
    I confess I've just started driving this machine and only been on a closed autocross course once so I haven't fully explored what one can do with even more practice.
    My first impressions tell me that soon I'll be happily watching your antique gear-shifters on the track or drag strip - in my rearview mirror :-)
    I guess the only question will be how much guts I have to experiment with such an expensive new car.

  11. #50
    Guest

    This whole thing with the

    This whole thing with the whole world going to automatic transmission is only in some countries like the US. Basically all of Europe prefers manuals over automatics. Try renting a car in the UK or Europe and you will see how hard it is to find an automatic...

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