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Thread: Flex-Fuel Hybrids
08-03-2008 03:55 AM #21
--------"Why don't they make
--------"Why don't they make the gas engine in hybrids flex-fuel? "----
All cars made should be Flex Fuel. We have past peak oil, oil is running out. Making a hybrid that cann't use another fuel is stupid--we are buying the hybrids because the OIL is running out you stupid jerks out there making the hybrids!!!!! It shouldn't take a genius to figure THAT out. E-85 is our only choice to replace gasoline. It is a good choice and a superior fuel, but not if you cann't use it. Brazil made flex fuel mandatory on all cars sold in Brazil many years ago. They also subsidized the production of ethanol from sugar cane for many years and required service stations to offer both gas and E-85 if they wanted to stay in business. Things went on about 50-50 for a long time when the price of gas was low. Then when the price of gas went up, and the energy crisis really hit---Brazilians just bought E-85 instead of gasoline. Today, most of the old gas pumps are E-85 with only a token gas pump at most stations for very old cars(and those are slowly disappearing also). There is no energy crisis and never was in Brazil---it passed unnoticed. The government TV ads promoting E-85 disappearing from TV caused more notice than the "energy crisis".
-------"They should also have some E85 stations in New Jersey."------
There is a plant being built in Soperton GA that will produce 100 million gallons/yr ethanol from logging and millwork wood waste. This plant was planned back in the 90's---however when the Bush Republicans moved in 2000 they blocked funding to build the plant for over 7 years---until the oil crisis got so bad and people got so mad that even THEY couldn't ignore the problem anymore. The plant is being built now. We need a LOT more ethanol than that to really make a difference in energy supply, but it is a start.
The price of E-85 will be spotty and not too competitive with gasoline to begin with because there won't be enough produced to be a serious competition to oil. However, as oil continues to decline in availability(increase in price) and ethanol production increases, the price difference between gasoline and ethanol will continue to grow wider. Then you will have a lot of people wishing they'd have gotten a flex fuel vehicle---generally the price is the same or only nominally more.
I think you are only wise to look for a flex fuel model. It costs little or nothing extra---and it might mean you aren't back to walking one day. Even if you don't like E-85 and would rather use gas---that's fine, you can---but if one day you NEED to start using E-85 because gasoline suddenly got too expensive or not available at all, that's fine, you can use E-85. Seems like really cheap insurance to me. Especially the way things are going with oil.
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08-06-2008 07:03 AM #22
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
Easy Wet Dog, Down Boy
Easy Wet Dog, Down Boy ;-)
Ethanol may not be the solution to the world's problems. Granted cellulosic ethanol has a bit more promise than corn based but it still isn't clear that we have enough arable land on our planet or in our country to raise enough crops of any type to replace all our oil with ethanol. We also still have to eat. I also believe you'll find that bio-diesel gets a few more miles per acre than ethanol because you don't waste so much energy in the fermentation and distillation processes.
Electricity, on the other hand easily could replace oil for all of our driving needs. A patch of useless southwest desert a couple hundred miles on a side can easily provide sufficient electricity to both replace all of our current uses of electricity as well as replace all of our driving miles.
I'm not against ethanol per se but the only technology that looks like it could actually replace fossil fuel is electricity from renewable sources.
08-07-2008 05:28 AM #23
LOL---ok ---- "Granted
---- "Granted cellulosic ethanol has a bit more promise than corn based but it still isn't clear that we have enough arable land on our planet or in our country to raise enough crops of any type to replace all our oil with ethanol."--------
Right now, PetroSun is producing 4.4 million gallons of biodiesel oil from saltwater algae in seawater holding ponds covering 1180 acres in Rio Hondo TX. B-100 is pressed out of the algae and used straight as produced. No further refining is necessary. Biodiesel can be used in any diesel engine with no modification whatever. Biodiesel replaces the need for crude oil accounting for costs of production, shipping and refining at the rate of 1 gal. bio relplaces the need for 2.3 gallons of crude oil.
We do not need to replace the entire amount we consume in crude oil now---we can do exactly the same things with 43% of present consumption.
Any conventional car can run on a mixture of up to 30% ethanol (E-30). Flex Fuel vehicles can run on either gasoline or any % of ethanol up to 85(E-85)---doesn't matter which, just put in whichever you want. Flex Fuel cars are being manufactured now and have been for 20 years. They cost the same or only minimally more than conventional. There are about 8 million flex fuel vehicles on the road now.
There is nothing wimpy or second rate about ethanol as a fuel. It is superior to petroleum gasoline and has an octane rating of 115. It is the only fuel allowed on the Indy Race Curcuit, 100% ethanol. That is not new though, alcohol has been used pretty much exclusively for 35 years. Nascar Curcuit uses only E-85. Indy racers have a 3.5 liter V-8 engine that typically generates 1200 - 1600 bhp. They routinely hit speeds of 240-260 in the straights.
Electric cars have been around for about 170 years. They still have the same problems that they have always had--limited range. Even if you have an extra battery pack that could be charging while you are driving, you'd still have to return home to change it out.
The only electric vehicles that make any real sense to me are hybrids. And when I do get a hybrid, will only be one that is either diesel or flex fuel, so that I can use biofuel.
08-07-2008 10:19 PM #24
EV1---I'm not trying to
EV1---I'm not trying to sound like I'm argueing one system over another here---my feeling is combine systems and use the best of each. Electric does have advantages, overcome it's problems(range) with a hybrid and VOILA!, we have a very versitile and technologically advanced vehicle.
The main thing that I like about electric which you didn't mention. Only one moving part, and the ability to seal it off from outside contaminants---which makes it extremely rugged and reliable, with an almost limitless life expectancy.
10-02-2008 06:06 PM #25
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- Sep 2008
I'm with Ex-Ev1 on this one.
I'm with Ex-Ev1 on this one. I love the Tesla roadster, especially because it was built using today's technology. I get irked as I watch GM's commercials out here for their new Volt-then they go to say that it's not available yet, have to wait until 2010.
What's the point? Except to "appear" greener than they are. Yet here we have Tesla Corp, getting funding and building an amazing system that blows everybody away in just a few short years.
Battery tech needs to advance more and better electric motor designs would help. All electric with 400-600+ mile range with onboard gen to recharge would be optimum.
I'd rather see a portion of that $25 Billion bush slipped to the big 3 go to Tesla- I think it go further and be more productive.
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10-03-2008 06:36 AM #26
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- Oct 2006
All ICE (Internal Combustion
All ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) powered engines are wimpy when compared with electric drive. The 1st generation production Tesla Roadster can match or greatly exceed almost any current production ICE vehicle today in real-world acceleration and performance. A lightweight, cheap, efficient (~40 lb) motor can provide hundreds of hp and huge amounts of torque.
Just wait for subsequent generations that are designed with max performance in mind.
The only possible limitation is the range. 200 miles might be a bit limiting for many but that, and charging times are very likely to improve greatly with time as well.
I'm 100% with you that a hybrid that uses diesel is likely to be one long-term, sustainable solution. I'd like to add that it should be a serial hybrid though so that all normal driving (full acceleration and less than 40 miles per day) should be with 100% electricity with the ICE kicking in only on long trips.
10-03-2008 03:00 PM #27
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- Oct 2008
I agree with you.The most
I agree with you.The most probable reason is the technology has not yet been developed or we are currently researching it.