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  1. #1
    Guest

    Flex-Fuel Hybrids

    Why don't they make the gas engine in hybrids flex-fuel? Flex-fuel means that the car can run any blend up to 85% ethanol as well as regular gasoline.

    They should also have some E85 stations in New Jersey.

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  3. #2
    Guest

    Flex-Fuel Hybrids

    I partly agree with you.
    E85 appears to be somewhat of a scam but I too would love to see fuel options. Give me a plug-in diesel hybrid with about 30-40 miles of electric range in which I can burn nearly anything or nothing if I chose. E85 capable hybrid would be a bit lower than my first choice but it would be better than what we have now.
    This is how we'll end our dependence on oil and reduce GHG production.

  4. #3
    Guest

    Flex-Fuel Hybrids

    The Escape Hybrid is being modified by Ford to run E85. My concern with Ethanol, even at 10%, kills my MPG in my '05 FEH. Pure 87 octane works the best now. Hopefully, the newer Flex Fuel and E85 cars will not have a reduction in FE.


  5. #4
    Guest

    Flex-Fuel Hybrids

    The reason mileage is lower with e85 is because it has less energy content. However, you should not see any noticeable difference on e10.

  6. #5
    Guest

    Flex-Fuel Hybrids

    One other HCH owner here notice the same drop in MPG as I did. Both times I got gas with ethanol, the amount of gas mix was only around ~6 gallons to a 15 gallon tank. It took 3 tanks of pure gas before I could shake a 5mpg average loss. In my opinion, the oxigenated additive (alcohol) screws up the oxigen sensors to run the engine rich because of the loss of energy. It must take awhile for the senors to adjust back to pure 87 octane. It's like adding water to the tank of the FEH, and it's hard to clear it up.

    In my case back then, it was not hard to get 45mpg, but the ethanol dropped that to 40mpg. Now that everything is cleared up, I can push the FEH over 70mpg on a short round trip of 20 miles. I can tell any change in the FEH FE in a matter of a few miles with the scangauge and Nav computer.

  7. #6
    Guest

    Flex-Fuel Hybrids

    Gary,

    Did you burn ethanol for long enough to allow the engine computer to fully adjust to the ethanol and then check your mileage? I don't know what the learning time for the FEH is but it could take several hundred miles to adapt to the new fuel.

  8. #7
    Guest

    Flex-Fuel Hybrids

    ex-EV1

    After the hurricanes we had last year, I had to drive about 50 miles to get some supplies and top off my tank. Only put about six gallons in and notice that my mileage was hard to maintain on my return home. This went on for a few tanks of pure 87 octane for a flush. Thought I got contaminated fuel or something.

    Second time was in December when my kids took the FEH to Disney World and got gas at a Citgo station on the turnpike. Same thing, about six gallons and the FEH acted the same way for about three tanks.

    As far as the computer or PCM, they reacted to the oxigen sensors right away both times. As far as giving them time to adjust to the ethanol to improve mpg, those three tanks (really kept tring to delute it with adding 5-6 gallons at a time) amounted to a little over one full fill up. So it took 17-18 gallons and 700 miles to clear up.

    The pure 87 octane may explain one reason why my mileage is so much better than most people's FEH. From my experience, ethanol would kill my averages if it was the only gas available here in So FL.

  9. #8
    Guest

    Flex-Fuel Hybrids

    Gary,

    I wonder what would happen if you ran a few thousand miles on the ethanol. I wonder if the computer might adjust a bit better. Doing the math from what you say, the ethanol is just a filler but I can't believe that it isn't burning. I understand if it takes a while to recover then maybe this isn't the problem.
    The specific energy of ethanol is 8.24KWh/kg while gasoline is 13.1 kWh/kg (about 37% less).
    Of course, what I care about is what your mpg with GASOLINE is since that is what I'm most interested in reducing, not maximizing my range on a tankful of liquid.

  10. #9
    Guest

    Flex-Fuel Hybrids

    If you use E10 and your mileage is reduced by less than 10%, you're still coming out ahead.

    E85, like I mentioned erler, usually results in about 15% lower mpg. Not bad considering you're using 85% less fuel.

    For example, let's say I get 50 mpg on full gasoline and 40 mpg on E85, all on a 10-gallon tank (so E85 yields 20% lower mpg here). Gas lets me travel 500 miles, and E85 lets me travel 400 miles.

    However, remember that only 1.5 gallons out of that E85 tank is actually gasoline, so I'm really getting 267 miles per gallon of GAS

  11. #10
    Guest

    Flex-Fuel Hybrids

    qq,
    Well put, you did a much better job at describing the math than I did.
    Of course, the unfortunate dirty reality is that it takes about 1 gallon of gasoline (or the equivalent) to get 1 gallon of ethanol. Per a Cornell University study: ethanol is energy negative as a fuel - but that is the little secret being kept by the auto manufacturers and agri-business.

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