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  1. #451

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    I think we have come to a readily available "end" solution for the problems we are facing right now. It's a diesel hybrid that can run on B100 and SVO (Straight [unused] Vegetable Oil) and WVO. Of course, it would have to be certified organically grown SVO, because we all know that fertilizers and pesticides are made from petrochemicals and the increased burden on our soils and planet to grow the extra oil stock would be horrendous if not organic. Perhaps a diesel hybrid could get 150mpg or more?
    P.S. We changed our minds on the Jetta. We're going with a Jeep Liberty CRD. Not sure about converting it to WVO yet, but of course we can make our own B100...

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  3. #452

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    *hybrid exhaust:
    +less particulate
    -more ozone depletion, more smog

    *diesel exhaust:
    -more "soot"
    +less global warming, smog, & ozone depletion

    *wvo/svo exhaust:
    -a little bit of non-toxic particulate
    +no downfalls whatsoever, smells good!

    *hybrid gas:
    -supports foreign oil or at least corporate-
    owned government, not renewable, bound to
    get more expensive
    +nothing positive

    *diesel petroleum:
    -yes, it's crappy like hybrid gas
    +can add biodiesel @ 5-20% (at least) without
    officially voiding warranties
    +can add 50-70% biodiesel w/ no decrease in
    performance and significant emission reduction

    +DO IT NOW!

  4. #453

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    No url

  5. #454

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    What do you mean "no url"?

    The list Ex-Accord lists is common knowledge. Everone knows hybrids run on regular gasoline. Everyone knows diesel is also obtained from crude oil. Do a search for biodiesel or the other types listed and you'll find the info...

  6. #455

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    First, let me state that I love the concept of WVO/SVO (Waste Vegetable Oil/Straight Vegetable Oil), however, like everything else, it is not perfect as Ex-Accord' states. There are a few downsides to WVO/SVO:
    - Must be preheated before use because veg oil is not viscous enough at low temperatures. Modifications to the vehicle are necessary, often, a dino-diesel tank is needed to start up with until the veg oil gets hot enough to switch over.
    - There really isn't enough WVO produced in the world to handle any significant portion of the world's driving needs
    - SVO can cause impact to agricultural (sure the world can drive but that won't be much use if they have to starve due to lack of food)

    There are some offsetting good things that were missed as well:
    + There are oil producing plants that are well adapted to various climates, thus requiring little irrigation or fertilizers
    + some oil producing plants help to nitrogenate the soil, thus making them good for the soil
    + there may be ways to harvest the oceans to get oil producing plants, thus greatly expanding the real-estate available for production.

    I also have to disagree with the assessment that hybrid exhaust is more global warming producing than diesel exhaust

  7. #456

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    global warming is caused by carbon. exhaust from normal gas has more carbon than exhaust from diesel. exhaust from B100 or WVO has less carbon than dino diesel.

  8. #457

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    you might be right on global warming DINO diesel vs. hybrid exhaust. It may depend whether you're driving an Insight vs. a Toureg, or whether you're comparing vehicles that are getting the same fuel economy.
    Don't get me wrong, I would consider purchasing an Insight for pure fuel economy money savings. Regardless, there is a difference between purely wanting to save money on gas vs. saving the planet.
    Even if it were more cost effective to get a hybrid (e.g., because normal gas is cheaper than diesel, or even of it got better fuel economy and the gas price was the same), I would still buy a diesel that I could put WVO/SVO in. That is saving the planet combined with spending very little on gas. And, you must admit that a WVO conversion kit is much simpler than the complexities of a hybrid.

  9. #458

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    "Civic hybrid gets 74mpg" ????
    I have Oct 06 issue of CR in front of me and
    it has a list of cars with the highest disparity in
    actual mpg and epa listed mpg. The epa for Honda
    Civic is listed at 48, but actual mpg per CR is 26.
    I know people have different driving techniques,
    but 26 to 74!!!!!!!!. I hope all the owners of car goes
    by how many gls they put in the tank. The read outs on dash are known to be very inaccurate.
    By the way Jeep Liberty diesel has an epa listing
    of 22 and according to CR it gets only 11!!!!!!!!
    So as far as diesels go the Liberty is not a great choice.
    As far as diesel-hybrid drivetrain it will probably
    not save much in mpg since DI diesels gets such
    a great mpg anyhow. The extra cost of hybrid
    system will be even less cost effective than the
    present gas-hybrid.

  10. #459

    Hybrid or Diesel?


    Where did you get the 0.123 g/m NMOG for the TDI exactly? I went to your source but could not tease that out>

  11. #460

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    I wouldn't be purchasing a Liberty for fuel economy, simply for the fact that I can make my own B100 for it and later convert it to VO. It actually does get better fuel economy than comparable SUVs, and is much more capable off-road than the Ford Escape hybrid or the Highlander hybrid.

    Please everyone, let's consider the difference between saving money versus saving the planet. If you're that selfish that all you care about is saving yourself money and the best fuel economy you can get, buy an electric vehicle that you plug in at night or maybe a Honda Insight. This is also the easiest, laziest option in terms of refueling your vehicle.
    On the other hand, you might care that the electricity used to charge your vehicle comes from greenhouse gas-emitting sources, or that your Insight is still using a non-renewable, toxic fuel that supports a petroleum-controlled government and corporate welfare.
    Consequently, another option would be to purchase B100 at the pump or make it yourself and put it in a diesel. You could later convert that vehicle (www.elsbett.com warrants their conversions, and they are relatively hassle-free) to run on straight vegetable oil. Buying vegetable oil in bulk is cheaper than petro and less environmentally-detrimental than a hybrid. In fact, running B100 puts out less carbon than the field of soybeans used to grow it can consume.
    I'll admit, making your own B100 is somewhat tedious, but it's cheaper than buying normal gas. However, buying B100 at the pump (which is easier to find than E85) is just as easy as filling up a hybrid.
    Okay, so you're the most environmentally-friendly feak out there? Try using renewable and recycled Waste Vegetable Oil picked up for free from your favorite restaurant. Once you've made the conversion, it could be viewed as just as easy to fill up with VO as it is dino petroleum at the pump, not to mention cheaper.

    My point:
    When making an argument on this thread, please make it clear whether you just care about money and pure ease of use, or are concerned about the planet. There is a difference.

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