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  1. #441

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Hybrids offer both significant reductions in fuel consumption as well as significant reductions in air pollution emissions-- an easy choice relative to other available choices if the various hybrid vehicles meet a prspective purchasers needs.

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  3. #442

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Mos...you are just saying what you want to hear
    ...no numbers or calculations to back up your statements..

  4. #443

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    The average motorist drive 15000miles a year and
    even with the VERY optimistic mpg figures some
    hybrid owners operate with the saving versus
    the gas version is maybe 200gls per year.
    The thousands of $$$$ extra money for the hybrid
    could be better spent.

  5. #444

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    I just read 2/3 of this whole string of arguments from the beginning. It took me about half a day. Everyone kept repeating themselves. It was really annoying.
    I work law enforcement and one of my coworkers got shot in the head while driving down the highway. I wanted a fuel efficient and environmentally friendly vehicle, but it had to be able to accelerate VERY QUICKLY. I traded in my Murano (the CVT was pretty cool) for a 2005 Accord hybrid. I paid just under MSRP for it and got something like a $1000 tax "incentive" in Indiana.
    It was rated 30cty/37hwy. I got 40mpg cruising in 3 cylinders @ 70 mph. Couldn't figure out city tho. Do you drive really slow like a grandma (which uses only engine) or accelerate quickly so the electric motors kick in? I could never get 30 in pure city driving, but I sure loved the power of 240hp + ~15hp from the electrics. That thing was so light - it took off like a rocket.
    And I say "was" because I had it about a year and traded it for a Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Diesel.
    Problems with Accord:
    *No sunroof available (fixed in '06)
    *No choice of options - leather standard
    *No spare tire (i caught a flat in sidewall - irreperable with included can of fixaflat)
    *No fold down (pass thru to trunk) back seat
    *Never rec'd 30mpg city regardless of techniques tried
    *AC runs on battery, so it slows down when auto stopped.
    *Suspension/handling mushy, not responsive like a 255hp sport sedan should be (Acura may have done a better hybrid)
    *The $30K sticker!
    *The horrible resale value!
    It was really fun to drive, but like you keep saying, I could have bough the 4cl Accord for way less money and got the same fuel economy. I needed something more utility oriented. I ride a Buell XB12X for 90% of my driving (yes, even in freezing temperatures) which is rated at 50cty/64hwy, so I didn't need a car sitting in the driveway doing nothing that was worthless for hauling/recreation/etc.
    I travelled all over Indiana to 10 different Dodge dealerships, and of the few who actually wanted my Accord on trade, the highest offer was $23k. Apparently, no one wants to pay more for a hybrid when they could get a normal V6 Accord for way less money.
    I'm convinced that biodiesel is the way to go, and before that had been all for hybrids since I test drove an insight when they first came out. The way overweight Americans love their fried fastfood, we should be able to make B100 from WasteVeggieOil much more readily available.
    Before my murano I bought an flex fuel ford ranger. turns out in the entire state of indiana in 2002 there was not one station that sold ethanol. the closest place was louisville, KY. we grow corn here for pete's sake! BTW, ETHANOL is BS. It takes more energy to produce it than normal gas. You get hp increase but mpg decrease. The only benefit is decreased emissions and supporting farmers. Farmers need to get Monsanto's hands out of their pockets and go organic. I have no sympathy for them otherwise. (my grandpa was a farmer)
    I'll only get 20-22mpg hwy in my Dodge Ram, but that is great compared to gas trucks that are significantly smaller. And the 610 lbs of torque is pretty cool. I'm a big environmentalist, so I feel bad about its fuel economy. Indiana only had B5 available.
    I'm in California now, and can easily find B99 & B100 or can make those myself. Also, I'll do a Waste Veggie Oil conversion someday soon. When I'm running B100 and WVO I laugh at all you brainwashed hybrid drivers who are still polluting (biodiesel exhaust is less harmful to human lungs and the ozone layer than hybrid exhaust) and supporting foreign oil and lining rich oil CEOs and lobbyists' pockets. b100 can be manufactured for $0.33 per gallon, while WVO is free. Let us not forget the Exxon Valdez either. That may have been rare, but every time oil is shipped they inevitable spill some during some part of the process (i read that somewhere).
    Please comment.

  6. #445

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    P.S. My girlfriend and I are buying a 2003 VW jetta wagon to complement the truck and motorcycles. It still has some warranty left, and in addition the 03s get better fuel economy and are better suited for WVO conversions than the 04s and newer.
    How can you say it is patriotic to drive a hybrid when waste veggie oil is recycled (keeps it out of the landfill), free, does not pollute (hardly) at all, helps to keep keep big business lobbying out of gov't, and will extend the life of my engine which means i won't have to purchase another one (we all know it is very taxing on the environment to build new cars) as soon?
    Biodiesel and WVO (perhpas hybrid versions) are the way of the future, not some hyped up, over-teched (is that a word?) geeked-out space ship. Gas hybrids are like putting a dying horse on life support. It's a last ditch effort by corporate-run gov't, oil-funded politicians and their tycoon buddies to make every last red cent off of depleting oil reserves. We have the technology to get away from petroleum right now. But I'll certainly buy a diesel hybrid when they come out. As long as it can run on B100 and/or WVO of course...

  7. #446

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Got to laugh...some hybrid owners think the gas they use is from non-opec producers.
    Some people who does not own hybrids are under
    the impression that they dont use gas at all.
    The propaganda works.

  8. #447

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Both Jetta and Civic hybrid get about the same MPG of around 48. I wouldn't say that's hype, but what real world owners report.

    Sounds like you got the car you were looking for in the Accord. You were doing pretty good for your 40MPG: most regular Accord V6'ers report low 20's MPG.
    Personally I wouldn't spend the extra money for the boost but clearly some do.

    Both diesels and hybrids are a great stepping stone for the next technology what ever that may be but surely isn't the solution.
    I'd like to see some kind of electric vehicle.
    The up-coming plug-in hybrids are another step in the right direction.

    Obviously I favor a sensible hybrid over diesels for my own personal reasons.
    I'm rather obsessive about fuel economy and just had a 74.9MPG and 1,003 mile tank with my own Civic Hybrid automatic (CVT) but not for environmental reasons.
    I do it to save money and self-challenge.
    Other than Insight I could not get that kind of efficiency...but that's only a two seater.

  9. #448

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Um, I think you missed "EX ACCORDhybrd OWNER"'s point on the Jetta TDI. While you may be getting 74mpg on your civic, he will be using NO gasoline (or petrol diesel). Who is getting betting gas milage?

  10. #449

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    "I think you missed (his) point on the Jetta TDI"

    No I didn't miss his points which were to glorify diesel and trash hybrid owners along with their vehicles.

    However I do agree with him that diesel is a real alternative.

    "While you may be getting 74mpg on your civic, he will be using NO gasoline (or petrol diesel). Who is getting betting gas milage?

    I also get your point with that statement.
    Jetta TDI's with auto transmission gets up to about 45MPG while my own Civic AT (CVT) gets up to 74.9MPG.
    It's easy math do do.
    The difference is less pollution per mile and conservation.

    Perhaps you missed my own point that neither today's hybrids or diesel is the end solution?

  11. #450

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    While I agree that neither todays diesels or hybrids may be the "end solution", it's kind of hard to base one's vehicle purchase on the "end solution", because we will never get to the end. Transportation will always be changing/evolving and hopefully improving.

    I'm not trying to bash either hybrids or diesels. I'm interested in both because I think they serve different needs and wants. And they each have strenghts and weaknesses. I would like to see both on the market in larger numbers.

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