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  1. #401
    Guest

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    There are enough hybrid problems to fill the library
    of congress...check this link...well I guess
    the battery car drivers wont open it...hard to
    look at the truth

    http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/2...l?page=4&pp=10

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  3. #402
    Guest

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Business
    Problems with Prius Spark Investigations
    by Jack Speer

    Morning Edition, June 2, 2005 · The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is investigating 33 reports that Toyota's popular hybrid cars have stalled without warning. Toyota has also started its own inquiry into the Prius.


    Related NPR Stories
    June 2, 2005

    Toyota Recalls Hybrid Prius for Engine Problems
    Date posted: 10-14-2005

    DETROIT — Toyota Motor Corp. said Thursday it is recalling some 2004 and early-2005 Prius cars to fix a software problem that could cause the gasoline engine to shut off








    By Joe Benton
    ConsumerAffairs.Com

    November 30, 2005

    • Bank Of America Offers Hybrid Rebate to Employees
    • Toyota Hybrid Tax Credit to Decline as Sales Climb
    • Toyota Aims for Even Better Prius Performance
    • Honda Plans New Hybrids and Diesels
    • Ford May Build a Plug-In Hybrid
    • Hybrid Sales Doubled in 2005
    • Prius Shortage Drags Down Hybrid Sales
    • Bush Proposes Lifting Hybrid Tax Credit Limit
    • Prius Rage Gives Rise to Hybrid Haters
    • Slow Hybrid Sales Worry Automakers
    • Ford Offers Zero Percent on Hybrids
    • Toyota Undercuts Honda with Camry Hybrid Price
    • Honda Moves Toward Hydrogen Fuel Cells
    • Consumer Reports Sizes Up Hybrid Costs


    Toyota has sold more than 500,000 of the Prius hybrids, setting the mark in October amid continuing complaints about gasoline mileage claims. While the Japanese automaker is developing a loyal band of Prius owners, it's also amassing a gaggle of angry Priusians.

    Feelings run deep among people who have endured waiting lists and additional premiums, particularly those who feel they were sold a pig in a poke.



  4. #403
    Guest

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    The high compression ratios used in the diesel engines present special challenges and an error in engineering was the cause of the very serious safety recall of the fire prone VW TDI.

    For the record, Honda did say that their direction was diesel engines for larger vehicles and hybrid engines for small ones.

    My own hybrid remains problem free and gets anyweher from 47-53 MPG. Its 85% American parts and will be assembled here in the US starting 4th quarter 2006.

    I feel good about contributing less to the pollution problems than I have in the past and using considerably less oil than in the past as well. Other technologies such as ethanol baseed engines look promising and tru biodiesel is great.

    I do believe that the consumer reports data available in any bookstore as well as the fuel efficiency and emissions comparative calculator on this website clearly show hybrids as a better choice than diesel nased passenger vehicles in most instances particularly in smaller vehicles.

    I do agree with some posts here however that the data is not entirely informative and some potentially positive aspects of diesels are not fully reported.

  5. #404
    Guest

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    MOS you don't know what the hell you're talking about. The engine fires have NOTHING to do with diesel compression ratios. The engine fire issue had to do with a faulty fuel delivery pump, and if the same problem was with a gasser it wouldn't be a "risk of fire" if the pump blew, it would be a definite fire as diesel is far less prone to ignition.

    If you knew half as much as you think you do, you'd realize that the compression ratio means the ratio of compression of air in the cylinder, with both intake and exhaust valves closed. How on earth compressed air can be a fire hazard is beyond me.

    In fact in a diesel air is compressed to about 20:1, whereas in a gas car, an air-gas mixture is compressed to about 10:1 with slight variation depending on the engine design. So for example if something like a head gasket blew, the diesel would be blowing out air but injecting fuel into a cylinder with no air in it. No air = no fire (and = engine no run too). On the other hand if a head gasket blows in a gasser, a fuel-air mixture will blow out. Of course this is a moot point because if a head gasket blows, coolant will also be spewing out with the mix. But I wouldn't expect someone as ill-informed as you to understand the difference between a "compression ratio", and a high-pressure fuel pump. For the record, here is the wording of the VW Recall:

    "On certain vehicle equipped with TDI-PD (Pumpe-Dόse) engines, the high-pressure diesel pumps were produced with improper fasteners. In rare cases, one of these improper fasteners may yield due to repeated cyclic loading and allow diesel fuel to escape from the high-pressure pump. Diesel fuel in the presence of an ignition source may lead to a fire. Additionally, due to the quantity of fuel that may be released, there is a crash risk posed to vehicles traveling behind the subject vehicle. Correction: Dealers will install a replacement diesel pump kit. " You'll note that this has NOTHING to do with compression ratios.

    I suppose I can publish my own VW horror story: "I don't know what possibly can be wrong, my car has nearly 60,000 miles on it and I haven't had ANY problems, those poor people over at Hybridcars.com won't be able to use it as an example"...

    Sheesh....besides, you're way off track: the issue here is diesel vs hybrid technology, not VW vs Honda. Let's see, GM make hybrids, I've owned three GM lemons in my lifetime. That must mean all hybrids are lemons no???

    Oh and here's one for Honda Civic lovers: "On certain vehicles, the hose clamps on the filler neck tube have insufficient clamping force. In a collision, the tube could disconnect from the fuel tank, resulting in fuel leakage. Fuel leakage, in the presence of an ignition source, could result in a fire. Correction: Dealers will check the hose clamps for proper torque and tighten them correctly if necessary."

    Personally I think this discussion has gone on long enough and has descended into nonsense from a couple of hybrid owners, in particular MOS who has no technical knowledge about diesels so spews nonsense instead.

  6. #405
    Guest

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Unofrtunately the details of the diesel engine fire safety recall are, of course, laid out in writing. The car was basically dangerous. I do of course fully ackowledge that I don't know any more about the details of a diesel engine than any typical person who does what he has to to keep a car maintained but not much more, so sorry if my lay person explanation didn't cover a full scientific explanation.

    For the record, Honda did say that their direction was diesel engines for larger vehicles and hybrid engines for small ones.

    My own hybrid remains problem free and gets anyweher from 47-53 MPG. Its 85% American parts and will be assembled here in the US starting 4th quarter 2006.

    I feel good about contributing less to the pollution problems than I have in the past and using considerably less oil than in the past as well. Other technologies such as ethanol baseed engines look promising and tru biodiesel is great.

    I do believe that the consumer reports data available in any bookstore as well as the fuel efficiency and emissions comparative calculator on this website clearly show hybrids as a better choice than diesel nased passenger vehicles in most instances particularly in smaller vehicles.

    I do agree with some posts here however that the data is not entirely informative and some potentially positive aspects of diesels are not fully reported.

  7. #406
    Guest

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Ethanol concerns me as it is made from grains or sugar cane. If it's made from waste components from the cultivation of such plants (components that aren't used in food or feed) then fine.

    However if agricultural lands are used to produce motor fuels rather than food, I think this is a misuse of land on a planet that has difficulty feeding its population.

    On the other hand, biodiesel can be made from *waste* biological matter and is much less energy-intensive than ethanol production (efficient, high-volume agriculture is a heavy user of fossil fuels so the gain from ethanol may be very small indeed or negative).

    There's no magic bullet. The first step is to consume *less*. I think diesels are crucial at meeting that objective in a cost-effective manner.

  8. #407
    Guest

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    I think both technologies are great alternatives to straight gasoline vehicles.

    Both have their strong points, both have their weak points.
    What I fail to understand is why some diesel enthusiasts fail to admit even basic factual downfalls to their car while fabricating falsehoods against the other, as if they are promoting their autos.

    Such as telling you auto makers are scaling back hybrid production when the opposite is true:
    http://www.forbes.com/facesscan/2006/06/13/toyota-watanabe-hybrid-cx_po_0613autofacescan03.html?partner=rss<br%20/>
    They'll tell you they can't make EPA because it is a cleaner machine and discredit any consumer complaints against it, as if elevating to some mythical status.
    Complete and total blindnes.

    I'll admit hybrid has its quirks, like having a learning curve to get the most benefit or possible battery replacement years down the road.

    I think an honest discussion is more informative.

  9. #408
    Guest

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Diesel fuel is simpler and less costly to produce
    not included taxes which are higher in some states
    than for the gasoline. It also pollutes less to produce it.
    "Gas pedal get stuck on a TDI" What the hell does
    have to do wheter the car is diesel or gas.
    TDI on fire??? Never heard about that problem
    and I read alot about VW and other cars. I also talk
    to many people who drive TDI's or work on them.
    It is hard to have a meaningful discussion when'
    things like that is posted.
    Had it not been for the thousands of $ in handouts
    to hybrid buyers I dont think this website or the
    hybrid cars would have existed.

  10. #409
    Guest

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Our energy policy at the corportae level is largely based on environmental credits that essentially are bought and sold between corportations as a method to incentivize reduced factory emissions/pollution for example. The tax credit for hybrids is a similar philosophy and appears successful.

    Fiscal incentives used to encourage cleaner air is a good thing and fits in our society and its structure.

    I thought the Toyota Camry Hybrid review recently placed as the lead article on this website was well writeen and an honest assessment.

  11. #410
    Guest

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    That Camry review states that "Of course, there isn’t a car made that regularly gets EPA mileage."

    This is patently false.

    I can easily BEAT EPA with both our TDIs by simply driving at the speed limit. This morning I drove in at 70 mph and made 5.7 L/100 km, which is exactly spot on the Canadian fuel consumption numbers for the Passat TDI, and which is significantly better than EPA. My AVERAGE fuel economy in the Passat is only 1-2 mpg less than the EPA HIGHWAY number.

    Of course what the article should have said is that there isn't a GAS car made that regularly gets EPA mileage.

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