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  1. #381

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    It would be reasonable to expect EPA mpg to be
    close to actual mpg. Dont you think so?
    I would hope most people would expect that.
    So if the Camry hybrid get 10 mpg less than what
    is posted I think there is something wrong!
    Would you not agree on that. As mentioned before
    Car & Driver exceeded the TDI's EPA mpg with
    1 mpg.
    So now you compare the Honda Hybrid with the
    Jetta TDI. Usually the comparision is done within
    the same brand. Like gasoline Honda versus the
    hybrid Honda. This is something you know Hot-Georgia, but you are running out of excuses for
    the high premium for hybrids. Maybe you should
    make your hybrid looke even better. Compare it
    with another diesel the MB E class CDI.
    At $50000 the MB makes the hybrid look like
    a saving of $25000 or more. Hybrid owners are
    getting desperate. Maybe u can find the price
    of a Civic Hybrid then the price of a similar
    gasoline Civic. Please do not include us taxpayers
    forced handouts to you guys. Thats the prices
    that should be used for comparison.
    By the way if the governments "entitlements"
    for hybrids is not enough to keep the sales going
    then maybe the hybridlobby will arrange for
    goverment subsidized gas for hybrid owners.
    Would not be suprised if that happens.

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  3. #382

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    I dont need to know a posting of the TDI's mpg.
    My own records (not a dashboard mpg) over the
    last 20 months so far has never given me below 41mpg and usually it is in the higer forties.

  4. #383

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Wow still going!

    The Diesel TDI will not be sold in the US in 2007 and maybe beyond due to continued emissions problems.

    So there is no misunderstanding the environmental concerns are very real and the US is a large contributor to the Ozone, Pollution, and Greenhouse issues we see growing as problems around us. There are a plethora of announced hybrids at this point schedule for release later this year and next while only a single Mercedes model with untested but well appreciated emissions equipment adds weight and money to the car.

    Hybrids have been largely successful in decreasing individual gas consumption as well as reducing air emissions. I see continued improvement in this area of technology as well as oithers but I am not seeing diesel engines in samll cars in the US as a preferred technology as time goes on.

  5. #384

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    "Hybrids have been largely successful in decreasing individual gas consumption as well as reducing air emissions"

    Is MOS blind? Have he not read about the disparity of EPA mpg and actual mpg on most hybrids. The pollution is tied to mpg performance and pollution from production and distribution.
    Did he not notice that VW plan to come back a
    year later with the trap filter? He "conveniently did
    not notice" that many manufacturers (Honda is one)
    plan to come to the US with diesels.
    And of course he "forgets" that taxpayers has
    to support a sputtering hybrid sale with thousands
    of $ for each car. Not very patriotic in a country
    based on market forces with little government.
    Links? Look on this site as far as disappointing
    mpg and problems with hybrids.

  6. #385

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Consumer Backlash
    Pete Blackshaw was particularly passionate about hybrid technology and greater fuel efficiency when he bought his Honda Civic Hybrid, so much so that he started a blog on the subject. His experiences did not turn out the way he expected, and he encountered the problem of lower-than-expected fuel efficiency coupled with inadequate customer support from Honda.

    "I feel like a complete fraud driving around Cincinnati with a license plate that says MO MILES," said Blackshaw, who explained to Wired.com that after 4,000 miles his car has never achieved more than 33 mpg on any trip. The tenor of Blackshaw's blog shifted from adulation to frustration after his Honda dealer confirmed his car was functioning properly and there was nothing he could do to improve his mileage.

    John DiPietro, a road test editor for the automotive Web site Edmunds.com, explained in a recent article on Wired.com ("Hybrid Mileage Comes Up Short," May 11, 2004) that hybrid drivers rarely experience the actual miles per gallon advertised by EPA.

    Most automobiles would have actual miles per gallon performance of approximately 75 to 87 percent of EPA's rating. However, data from Consumer Reports' extensive road tests show the Honda Civic Hybrid and Toyota Prius averaged well under 60 percent of EPA's reported miles per gallon when operating on city streets. The Civic Hybrid was getting only 26 mpg in the city.

  7. #386

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    More quotes

    But after a few months of commuting to his job in Cincinnati, Blackshaw's hybrid euphoria vanished as his car's odometer revealed that the gas mileage he was hoping for was only a pipe dream. Honda's Civic Hybrid is rated by the EPA to get 47 miles per gallon in the city, and 48 mpg on the highway. After nearly 1,000 miles of mostly city driving, Blackshaw was getting 31.4 mpg.

    "I feel like a complete fraud driving around Cincinnati with a license plate that says MO MILES," says Blackshaw, who claims that after 4,000 miles his car has never gotten more than 33 mpg on any trip. The tenor of Blackshaw's blog shifted from adulation to frustration after his Honda dealer confirmed that his car was functioning properly, and that there was nothing he could do.

  8. #387

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    I get 50+ MPG in my 2006 HCH II. The old ones are not really the point, but are important in that folks that invested money got a good product but were also paying for an improved future which has now arrived and will continue to do so, as almost all major car manufacturers are now introducing hybrids in their line as diesels disappear from the landscape for at least the next year.

    Consumer reports has carefully tracked reliability and found Honda hybrids to be simply stellar and recommended clearly. The VW diesel in comparison had reliabilioty issues, safety issues, and is not recommended.

    The hybrids save gas relative to owners previous vehicles ( the real issue) as well as reduce pollution by the tons per car. The Honda in particular is composed of 85% American parts, and will be assembled in America beginning fall 2006. Supporting our job market, reducing dollars to terrorist nations, cleaning up the environment-- a very clear moral, ethical and patriotic choice at a needed time....

  9. #388

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Dan- I agree that VW should make a hybrid. Right now that company has significant internal challenges and dosnt really have the technical know how to make a hybrid.

  10. #389

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    "safety issues and quality"...he has no clue what he
    is talking about. Below is a quote from Edmunds.com about the 2006 TDI

    "Powerful turbo engine, fuel-efficient TDI power plant, comfortable ride, GLI model's tight handling, rich interior materials, loads of standard safety features, excellent crash test scores, solid build quality"

    and the Jetta has 12 years corrosion warranty
    versus 5 for the Honda battery car. Wonder why.
    Wish people who writes on this site had some
    backing to their words.

  11. #390

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    And of course he never touched the subject I and
    other taxpayers help finance his battery car.
    Some patriot to a country based on a market economy.

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