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  1. #151

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    "if Toyota had put a small 1.2L turbodiesel in their new subcompact it would be getting 60 mpg now"

    Honda already has a hybrid which averages over 60MPG...
    Lots of 60's, 70's, 80's and even 90 MPG by everyday users.

    You also wrote:
    "The people who didn't like diesels 20 years ago are giving the same old wornout excuses they don't like them today"

    Similar to what I recently posted:
    Same claims by diesel industry/enthusiasts for 50 years. Clean, easy starting reliable car...and they are...for the first few years.

    Bjorn wrote on May 8:
    "I can verify that the Jetta TDI averages 45mpg
    from my own records over 18 months"

    Shall I give my own records for the past 18 months?
    How about 65MPG last Summer, upper 50's to low 60's last Winter and the winter before?
    My car has an AUTOMATIC transmission and still has a lifetime MPG of over 60.
    What was it your MANUAL transmission TDI gets?

    Heck my wife borrows my Civic Hybrid and thinks nothing of efficiency and still gets 47-52MPG.

    Follow the Greenhybrid link above and find the Civic Hybrid is very close to EPA, both Manual AND Automatic transmissions.
    Both Civics average better than your 45MPG, as well as the new Civic which is automatic transmission.

    None of those hybrids have to pass by stations because they don't sell diesel.

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  3. #152

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Ron wrote on May 7:
    "you failed to refute, explaining why the average gas-engined car ain't going to last as long as the average diesel"

    Look at the vast overwhelming clear evidence. Old diesels don't overwhelm the old gassers. It's about even. They don't last longer or shorter.

    This is rediculous.
    So what you are saying is that while someone posts wild claims that folks should injest it as truth.
    I say NO!
    Do your own research.
    There is zero evidence that diesel cars last longer on average.

  4. #153

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    To "link man" here is a link from a us government
    regarding that diesels are more durable than gasoline engines...what else do u need?

    http://www.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/pdfs/basics/jtb_diesel_engine.pdf#search='DIESEL%20ENGINES%20M ORE%20DURABLE%20GASOLINE'

    My Jetta (a heavier car than a civic) gets well over
    50mpg highway driving only and there are smaller
    diesel cars out there (but not sold in the US)
    that gets 60-70mpg.
    Why would I be worried about finding diesel when
    the range of my car is almost 700miles out on the
    highway? Any comments to the above?

  5. #154

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    The Prius is a newer design than Jetta TDI, but
    look who came out first in USA Today
    test. Any comment from the subsidized hybrid


  6. #155

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    A paragraph from USA Today regardig Prius

    The gas-tank warning light flashed after 422 miles. I drove 10 miles to the next gas station and filled up, putting 11.1 gallons into the 11.9-gallon tank. That would indicate 38 mpg, far short of the 51 mpg government rating. The car's trip computer told me it had been getting 51.7 mpg

    Any comments...maybe those 60mpg some
    hybrid supporters has to be investigated........

  7. #156

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    The problem with many of you hybrid supporters
    is that you think there are 3 or 4 kinds of diesel cars namely Jetta TDI, MB E class, newer type of
    huge Ford/Chrysler/GMC truck and all those old
    smoking buses.
    But the rest of the world is full of clean effiecient
    diesel cars. All brands have them.
    Here is one that gets 80mpg.


    ...and the next thing I will hear from the hybrid people "I was behind this bus...'
    They will never get it

  8. #157

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Here is the Toyota. Who said "why dont they put a
    diesel engine in their cars?"


    How about using the statement "diesel stations are far apart" or "once I was behind a diesel bus in
    Houston" ?

  9. #158

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Daimler's system, called BlueTec, uses a catalytic converter and specialized filters to reduce harmful nitrogen-oxide emissions. The company is betting BlueTec will turn U.S. drivers on to diesel and give hybrids fresh competition. The reason: Mercedes clean-diesel cars will cost less than an equivalent hybrid while offering greater power and acceleration, plus up to 40% better mileage over conventional gas engines. That's a lure for Americans who love big cars and off-road vehicles. And diesels can go 500 miles without a fill-up.

    Diesel has floundered in the U.S. because oil companies haven't offered the clean fuel required in Europe. Since diesel pollutes more than regular gas in the U.S., such big markets as California and New York refuse to register new diesel cars. Later this year, though, the feds will require oil companies to switch to the low-sulfur diesel long available in Europe, eliminating the soot problem.

    But Daimler's exhaust-treatment technology will go a big step further, cleaning up to 80% of the remaining nitrogen-oxide emissions. That, combined with good mileage, will make diesel a truly green U.S. driving alternative for the first time. DaimlerChrysler CEO Dieter Zetsche likens Mercedes' emissions-control solution to Silicon Valley tech breakthroughs. "It's our intention that customers regard BlueTec for diesels [as] similar to 'Intel (INTC ) Inside' for PCs," says Zetsche.

    That sounds like a stretch. But many industry experts believe a new generation of clean-diesel cars will eventually win over Americans and that diesel will become the dominant technology for fuel-efficient autos. While hybrids get better mileage only in the city, diesel cars consume less fuel in all driving conditions. Market researcher J.D. Power & Associates (MHP ) (like BusinessWeek, a unit of The McGraw-Hill Companies) forecasts diesel will take 11.8% of the U.S. market by 2015, up from about 3% now. Says Anthony Pratt, a senior J.D. Power analyst: "We think it will fly, and the Europeans have the most to gain."

    Daimler isn't the only one to recognize the opportunity. Volkswagen, which is working on two different clean-diesel technologies, saw its U.S. diesel sales double in 2005, to 25% of total sales. It already sells Jetta, Golf, and Beetle diesel models in the U.S. The first VW clean-diesel model will be a Touareg SUV, slated to launch this year. BMW and Audi also have plans for diesels, as do Nissan (NSANY ) and Honda. (HMC ) If the Japanese mass marketers put their muscle behind diesel, it will suddenly have much broader appeal.

    Daimler, which also intends to put BlueTec into Chryslers, appears to have an early jump, but hurdles remain. Perhaps the biggest: Oil companies need to update their filling stations with modern, user-friendly pumps for passenger cars. And some diesel critics note that the cost of the equipment to clean up diesel's emissions will bring the premium for clean-diesel cars close to that of a hybrid, especially in smaller models.

    Mercedes insists that the premium over a gasoline E-Class will be less than $2,000, compared with at least $4,000 for a hybrid. Even that added cost could be partially offset if the U.S. government proceeds with plans to offer diesel the same tax benefits hybrids now enjoy. Toyota Motor Corp. (TM ) may have stolen the limelight on fuel efficiency with its hybrid Prius. But if the new crop of Daimler clean diesels catches on, the real debate about green car technology may be just beginning.

    By Gail Edmondson, with bureau reports

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  10. #159

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Bjorn what is your issue? This is a pro hybrid web site and discussion board, so of course there are hybrid supporters. That doesn't mean we are anti diesel. I have a Hybrid Highlander that replaced a 10 yo Exploerer. It's cut my fuel consumption in 1/2, allowes me to still tow my pop-up camper, and cart 7 people to the beach. I am strongly considering a used diesel for my next car and running it on home grown biodiesel. The problem in the states is that those diesel's you talk about aren't available. Clean diesel fuel is not available yet. In my state I can not buy or register a new diesel because of the emissions. So when clean diesel fuel becomes available, or biodiesel becomes more availale, and the auto makers incorporate they technology to clean up diesel exhaust then diesel will be a more viable option for both better gas milage which will decrease our oil dependency and being environmentally friendly.

  11. #160

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Toyota Yaris diesel (not sold in the US) average
    mpg 64 in mixed driving

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