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  1. #221

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Bjorn I can play that game too.

    "I have not been able to achieve over 35 mpg in my 2002 golf tdi"
    Location: Burlington, VT

    "Since ~1000 miles my mileage is bad (~33mpg constant; independent of highway or city)"
    Location: CA - San Jose

    "I'm looking for mechanical culprits for the lousy mileage my 02 Golf gets"
    Location: Providence, RI

    "Right now I'm averaging between 35-37 mpg in the city (I might get 40 on the highway). I was expecting more from my 2004 Jetta TDI"
    Location: Wilmington, NC

    Would you like me to make a long list of informative posts regarding poor VW workmanship, lemmon VW's and generally disgusted owners?

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  3. #222

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Well the point is to discuss diesels vs hybrids. The fact that VW is the only manufacturer making mainstream diesels in N. America (we also get the Smart car in Canada with a 3-cyl diesel), means that we have to suffer VW quality, which has its ups and downs, and their dealer network. To be honest, there HAVE been issues. My 99.5 Jetta TDI certainly did not measure up to the best Japanese cars for reliability. However my 2005 Passat and 2004 Jetta have been flawless and even start easier in the winter than our Accord which I traded in for the 2004 Jetta.

    That said, Toyota and Honda also happen to manufacture excellent diesels.

    It's too bad we can't have them as well. Diesels, efficient conventional gasoline cars with low emissions, and hybrids would offer a well-rounded product line. Diesels would appeal to high-milers who do mainly highway, straight gassers with low emissions to people who don't drive enough mileage to justify the extra expense of a diesel or hybrid and still want low emissions, and hybrids for those with heavy urban driving in their mix.

    Choice and competition would be the winning ticket for consumers.

  4. #223

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    I am sure most of us has seen in the newsmedia
    lately how the EPA numbers on many new cars
    have been overated and hybrids in particular and
    that is no game. Also the US Today test of the
    Prius versus the TDI was no game either

  5. #224

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    another quote, but not a game

    Several bills floating around Congress, for instance, have proposed tax incentives to buyers of hybrid cars, irrespective of their gas mileage. Thus, under one failed but sure to resurface formulation, the suburbanite who buys a hypothetical hybrid Dodge Durango that gets 14 miles per gallon instead of 12 thanks to its second, electric power source would be entitled to a huge tax incentive, while the buyer of a conventional, gasoline-powered Honda Civic that delivers 40 miles per gallon on the open road gets none.

    Above quote is from this link..sobering for the hybrid crowd


  6. #225

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Bjorn did you notice the word "opinion" in your link?
    I haven't read such a rabid anti-hybrid statement from someone who doesn't know the technology..or the cars, and writes without researching first.

    "because under certain circumstances they run on battery power"
    Honda's system doesn't run on battery power, it is an assist system.
    Fuel economy comes from an efficiency-tweaked gasoline engine, and the lost performance is taken up by the electrics.

    "Parking spaces dedicated to hybrid owners"
    First I heard of that one.
    Perhaps he was confused with those EV stations, or just lying.

    Grudge statement:
    "just because a car has so-called hybrid technology"
    So-called? Give me a break.
    Guess you drive a so-called diesel too?

    "Fuel-efficient conventional cars are often better than hybrid S.U.V.'s"
    Escape Hybrid SUV averages about 31MPG, and up to almost 40MPG
    While the non-hybrid version is low 20's MPG.

    Mariner hybrid SUV gets around 29MPG
    "http://www.greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/mercury-mariner.html" but as high as 33MPG.
    Non-hybrid version gets around 22/26.

    "Being a professional car-tester"
    No professional would print such falsehoods.
    I'll continue....

    "(Hybrid premium)as much as $6,000 more per car"
    Which car(s) are these?

    "The hybrid car's electric battery packs rob space from passengers and cargo"

    "an unrecycled hybrid battery pack, which weighs more than 100 pounds, poses a major environmental hazard"
    The Nimh batteries are non-toxic.

    "So the ideal hybrid car is one that is used in town"
    Honda's hybrid cars make ideal highway cars.
    I don't know about Toyota. I haven't driven thier hybrid car.

    The ideal in-town car would be an EV, in my opinion.

    Is he insane?
    "Hybrid taxis and buses make enormous sense"
    He just spent 100% of his energy trashing hybirds now he endorses them for taxis? CNG is the way to go for busses.

    And last:
    "And they may actually punish citizens who save fuel the old-fashioned way by using less of it, with smaller, lighter and more efficient cars. All the while, they'll make a mockery of a potentially useful technology"

    Who's making mockery here?
    Look at the everyday hybrid MPG facts from real-life drivers:

    Per tank potential from real-life daily drivers:
    Accord hybrids almost 40MPG
    Civic 1 hybrid almost 70MPG
    Civic 2 Automatic transmission 60MPG
    Insight 93MPG
    Prius 72MPG

    I've shown here that Jamie Lincoln Kitman is an idiot and will print anything they "feel" about regardless of fact. He works for NY times and doesn't suprise me.

    What I *was* suprised about was it didn't go into a tyrade of "Now the Jetta TDI gets 45MPG" along with a shiny, polished piece.

    Thanks for the link Bjorn, I really enjoyed that. :-)
    I'll have to pass that along to my other friends

  7. #226

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    LOL...everything Kitman said is true and the
    hybrid crowd cant handle the truth. They depend
    on everyone else to make an incentive to
    make is look good to buy one..subsidy, special
    parking , using car pool lanes. If hybrid is so
    great why cant they make it on their own.
    Diesels have to. As a matter of facts many states
    add extra tax on diesel. Maybe it is used to
    to make up for lost income tax from hybrid owners?

  8. #227

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    NY Times is a great paper in many ways.
    Too bad many people in this nation does not
    get to read it. I can imagine one.

  9. #228

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Just took a close up look at a Tahoe hybrid 2-Mode.
    Sat behind the wheel, but no driving.
    Some of tou readers might have seen it at a carshow already, but it is a first time for me.
    Nice looking car. Almost converting me to a
    hybrid fan..lol. This one is on its way to Dubai,
    United Arab Emirates.
    My job bring me in contact with a lot of prototypes and exhibition cars coming in ang going out of USA.
    I also get to talk to their reps travelling all over
    the world on test teams.

  10. #229

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    In Canada, only the Honda Insight (hybrid) beats the smart fortwo cdi (diesel) in actual mileage. In Canada, you can get the smart fortwo cdi starting at $16,700. In Canada, the average smart fortwo cdi owner is spending half as much money on fuel as most other petrol vehicles on fuel efficiency alone.

    Have a look here as people track their mileage (includes European and Canadian contributors). But you need to understand the metric L/100km measure:


  11. #230

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    I looked at that mileage database for the smartcars. It looked like about 44 MPG on average. Is my math off?

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