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  1. #111

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    MOS - If diesels are the root of all air quality issues, why does urban air quality not improve (and often deteriorates) on weekends when diesel truck traffic decreases by as much as 80% and NOx decreases by as much as 50% (weekend ozone effect)?








    As I mentioned in an earlier post, even "Bin 10" diesels are closer to "PZEV" with respect to VOCs (NMHCs) than even the gasoline cars classified as PZEV if you include the evaporative emissions during refueling and distribution of highly volatile gasoline.



    VOCs decompose in the atmosphere to fine particles (SOA) and formaldehyde, not to mention their role in ozone (smog) formation.

    I commend you for going from a 20 mpg vehicle to a 50 mpg hybrid and I acknowledge that there are some disadvantages to diesels (e.g., fuel not available at every gas station). However, I strongly disagree with your "diesels are dirty" assertion, especially with respect to the current generation of diesel vehicles.

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  3. #112

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Why do Europeans drive diesel cars?
    Because the price of gasoline is taxed up to 75%:

    Per gallon:
    $6.48 Netherlands
    $5.79 UK
    $5.59 France

    Seems to me that since diesels are already intrenched in Europe they aren't going to move to a better technology.
    I don't blame them with those prices.
    It's too bad their governments retard technology advancement with their greediness.

  4. #113

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    The diesel fuel in most european countries are
    taxed slightly below gasoline. The buy diesels
    because of the exellent mpg. But they also buy
    gasoline cars, but with a different injection system
    that give low fuel consumption when using their
    sulphur free gasoline. Fos some reason no one
    seem to know about this on this side of the pond.
    European on average have a shorter work commute. "Greed" by their government led to
    fuel efficient cars just like in Japan. Less money
    is going from Europe to nations who might want to
    harm us. Yes it is expensive to fill up the tank there, but it is good to know next fill up is maybe
    2-3 weeks down the road.
    "Greed" comes in many forms. I live on L.I New York and most homeowners here pay $8000 and up
    to finance schools, local government etc.
    We also have hefty tolls crossing bridges and
    tunnells. Some of them $7.
    Most countries in Europe has no real estate tax.
    School money comes from taxes from sale taxes
    and fuel taxes are one of them.

  5. #114

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    With high taxes on european fuels there is an
    even better incentive to move from gas and
    diesel cars. In the mean time diesels has a great
    advantage over gasoline cars.
    That make sense to most people. More expensive
    fuel will spur research to better fuel economy or
    find alternate fuel.

  6. #115

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Bjorn, you're right about ULSD (and low-sulphur gasoline).

    I now try to buy my diesel exclusively at Shell stations because in Quebec and Alberta (I live in Quebec), Shell has stated that all diesel fuel now sold in these markets is ULSD.


    Finding a diesel station is no problem where I live and work. Finding a Shell station that sells diesel is a bit more work though :-)

    Luckily there are two on my commute route though, one in the nearest village to where I live, and the other on my main route home from Montreal.

  7. #116

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Hi Mike G

    My first car trip to Quebec City was in March, 1985
    or maybe 1985. I had a diesel VW Rabbit then.
    Gave me 38-40mpg with this older technology
    diesel, but it started next morning (with a noisy warmup). It was minus 22 C (around 3 F).
    Then we drove to Quebec City where the temp was
    the same. No starting problems.
    We have driven to Quebec City since in the summer and will probably go again. Great place to visit and friendly people. Next trip will be in a TDI looking for Shell stations. By the way I use Shell
    Rotella Synthetic 5-40 ch-4 rating.

  8. #117

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Gasoline cost is considerably more in Europe than diesel:

    Note that the currency posted is in Euros.

    So....what you are saying is that if gasoline was cheaper all these years that they would have abandoned gasoline cars for more expensive diesel?

    Somehow I don't think so.
    Neither do we, especially now that we have regular burning hybrid cars that meet/beat diesel.

  9. #118

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Abandoned gasoline cars when gasoline is cheap.
    That does not make sense. What make sense is
    that high prices on fuel create a demand for
    frugal cars and the diesel car was the easiest and
    cheapest way to go. In order to reduce pollution the
    sulphur content in both gas and diesel iin Europe
    is 15ppm or less. This also made the gasoline
    saving direct fuel injection for gas engines a popular thing in Europe. The expression "in Europe"
    should be carefully used even when talking about
    member countries in EU. For example taxation of fuel varies from one country to the other.
    I personally know that diesel in Scandinavia is
    about 8-10 % cheaper than gas mostly to simpler production at the refinery then also to lower taxes.
    In the US we go the opposite way. Many states have higher diesel taxes and play favorite to
    hybrids like tax credits (read government subsidy)
    and use of car pool lane for huge suv hybrids!!!
    Make sense!!!

  10. #119

    Hybrid or Diesel?

  11. #120

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    FYI TODAYS(5/6/06) in this case Norway

    Diesel per liter $1.83 gasoline $1.83

    Not much of a difference is it?

    Keep in mind this is one country. There is no such
    thing as a set "european prices"

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