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  1. #81

    Hybrid or Diesel?


    How is a hybrid going to eliminate dependency on mideast oil? Last I checked they still burn gasoline. Ethanol might work.

    But so too does biodiesel.

    Air quality? That's not insurmountable with particulate traps and NOx catalysts. The technology is just around the corner and PM traps are already in use in Europe. ULSD will also help.

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  3. #82

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Hybrid cars get better mpg than gasoline same with diesel cars. that how america will e indepence of imported oil. no one never said that hybrid car did not use any gas just less. the real issue is we all need to take account mpg when buying a car.

  4. #83

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    I hear ya Mos.
    Hybrid cars DO completely end foreign reliance.
    Just as
    "Don't forget that 50% of all diesel cars ever built for the U.S. market are STILL on the road"

    Mike wrote:
    "Diesels make most sense for people like me with 85-90% constant-speed highway driving, and hybrids may make more sense for those with a heavy amount of city driving in their mix"

    Why would you say that?
    I understand you like diesels which is fine but doesn't don't make sense for many of us.
    I drive about 45 miles into Atlanta, 98% freeway and usually park 58-63MPG. 5:30PM rush-hour Atlanta traffic. Sometimes a bit better if the wind is to my back.
    On the return trip I exit 1/2 way onto a rural highway where I really work it to the max and park @ 68-72MPG. It's 3:00AM at this time.

    "Also a diesel gives you a more "normal" feeling driving experience"

    What is "abnormal?
    What IS abnormal is having to scan over a gas station, only to find that they don't sell the diesel fuel you need.
    Maybe the next station will sell it.

    Funny how some diesel enthusiasts like to portray hybrid as overly complicated while thier own cars require Nox catalysts, particulate traps, scrubbers, and everything else, while hybrids have a normal catalytic converter.

    Those overly complicated devices are designed to clean up filthy raw engine exhaust.
    No wonder so many diesels stink/smoke after 6-8 years as those parts clog/fail.
    Not to mention the diesel turbo charger which is more probematic than a hybrid. Hybrids don't even have turbochargers

  5. #84

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Hybrids are also gouged more. For example, Priuses sell for around $26-27k. Hybrids also haven't been around as long, so you can't find a cheap hybrid.

    Diesels have been around longer, making diesel powered vehicles within more budgets. ANd there's also the potential for wvo.

    I think most (if not quite all) of dieel's emissions problems will be solved now that clean diesel is here. Maybe they might also be allowed back into California.

  6. #85

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    The primary reason I'm more on the diesel side is because of the wvo.

    What I'd really like to see is more E85 flex-fuel cars. They copuld even make flex-fuel hybrids.

  7. #86

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    "Not to mention the diesel turbo charger which is more probematic than a hybrid. Hybrids don't even have turbochargers "

    Diesel turbochargers are relatively trouble-free if you resist the temptation to "chip" the ECU to increase boost and output. Diesel exhaust is much lower temperature than gasoline exhaust which considerably reduces stress on the turbo. That's not to say that they never fail but from what I read on TDIClub.com turbo failures are relatively rare.

    Gas cars BTW, have way more than catalytic converters to clean up exhaust. There are O2 sensors, temperature sensors, exhaust-gas recirculation, charcoal filters for gasoline vapours, mass airflow sensors, and the list goes on. Not really any more or less than diesels, just different.

    As for smoking 6-8 year old diesels, which particular models are you speaking of? TDIs, which are direct-injection with full electronic engine controls, or the older VW diesels with fully mechanical injection pumps, no electronic controls, and indirect injection? I see an awful lot of TDIs on the road here, from the earliest ones (40% of VW's Canadian sales are TDIs), and I have yet to see one smoking. Can't say the same thing for the older IDI diesels though; but then again, compare your hybrid to a 80's vintage carburetor gasoline car and you can be sure your hybrid will come off looking better; I've been stunk out by plenty of out-of-adjustment gassers as well, it's just more visible with older diesels (soot). On my commute to work in the morning I usually see at least a dozen TDIs of various vintage and none of them smoke.

    Most of what I read about hybrid highway mileage shows that people are getting less than what you get. On the other hand many diesel drivers get less than I do as well. I figure if I have an efficient car I may as well extract the maximum efficiency for it (but without driving slower than the speed limit). Coming home tonight my 38 mpg EPA rated Passat was giving me about 44 mpg on the highway at 100 km/h (the speed limit). This is in a 3500 lb mid-sized family car. I can get 50 mpg in our more compact Jetta with the smaller engine.

  8. #87

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    "A diesel engine still contributes to the problems of air quality..."

    So does any vehicle that runs on a highly volatile fuel like gasoline. If you include evaporative gasoline emissions in a vehicle's emissions profile, you'll see that even PZEV vehicles are responsible for more than double the NMHC emissions of "Bin 10" diesel vehicles (diesel fuel has very low volatility; biodiesel even lower). More than just "tailpipe" emission need to be taken into account when assessing the air quality impact of a vehicle.

    In my opinion based on the "weekend ozone effect" studies (DOE), VOCs (NMHCs) are much more responsible for poor air quality than NOx, at least in urban areas.

  9. #88

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    At launch the BMW 1 Series was available with a choice of four engine: 1.6 litre - 116i and 2.0 litre - 120i petrol engines and a 2.0 litre diesel engine with two power outputs the 122 bhp - 118d and the 163 bhp - 120d.

    We tested the higher output 120d, which is equipped with a 2.0 litre turbo-charged common rail diesel engine mated to a standard 6-speed manual gearbox. Should you wish the 120d can also be specified with a 6-speed automatic gearbox (£1485 option) featuring the Adaptive Gearbox System with Steptronic manual gear selection.

    From the moment you press the starter button you know you are going to experience something special. The engine produces 163 bhp @ 4,000 rpm and 340Nm of torque @ 2,000 rpm enabling the 120d to accelerate from 0-62 mph in just 7.9 seconds and continue to a terminal speed of 137 mph. Just as impressive is the 50-75 mph acceleration figure in fourth gear of just 6.6 seconds. The precise, short throw gearshift makes for quick and effortless changes.

    Until recently, like many people, we were not really diesel fans, considering them to be smelly, slow and noisy but how things have changed - the 1 Series 120d is testament to this. Here we have a diesel sports hatchback that can reach 62 mph in 7.9 seconds. One of our team used to own a Porsche 944 that quoted a comparable figure and would also reach a similar top speed. To top this off BMW quote a combined fuel consumption figure of 49.6 miles to the gallon. Of course you can tell that the car is powered by a diesel engine, the power delivery is different to that of a petrol car and the engine chatters at idle but no longer do you have to put up with a slow noisy engine. In practice you do forget that you are driving a diesel and it is only at the fuel pump that it really affects you and only for the better.

    We found the 120d to be powerful, flexible, fugal and smooth - what more could you want?

    BMW have recently announced the introduction of the BMW 130i - a car powered by the world’s lightest 3.0-litre six-cylinder petrol engine which powers the BMW 130i from zero to 62mph in 6.2 seconds and on to a top speed of 155mph. For more information [ click here ]

    How It Drove - Ride/Handling

  10. #89

  11. #90

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    . The new diesel standards were supposed to be in effect in 2007 so we should get lower sulpher and less polutants. The main problem with diesel emmisions are that people see the soot (particulates), while they do not see the nasty stuff from gas engines.

    I must admit I was a little hesitant to look at a deisel car until I drove my brother's VW Golf TDI. They have a ton of torque and is very driveable, with great mileage - average 45-48 MPG....more if you drive nice. :-) Now I own two VW diesels and am just dying for other car manufacturers (besides the nice but expensive Mercedes) to put diesels into the new cars. I know that Dodge is putting a small diesel into the Calibur in Europe, but not here. The new common rail diesel engines are lot quieter and cleaner than the old engines. My 2004 is much quieter than my 1999, but I never see smoke from either one of them; unlike the Ford/Chevy/Dodge trucks that are usually chipped and modded. (My Golf is chipped and modded and still does not smoke) With all the hoopla of BioDiesel, we still do not have very many options for cars that can use it. Get with it manufacturers! People: Request (or demand) diesel cars! Go test drive one....you will be surprised and pleased.

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