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  1. #71
    Guest

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Safety?
    If any one is rear ended by a big car would you
    feel better if the tank is filled with diesel or
    highly flammable gasoline. This is never mentioned
    by automobile magazines or in news media.

    Supply?
    Any homeowner can safely store a years supply
    of diesel at home. Dont try that with gasoline.

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  3. #72
    Guest

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Have any of you done research on the new duramax or powerstroke? These motors are great!! They have more horsepower and torque than any of the weenie hybrid cars. If you hit a hybrid car with one of these trucks you will completely demolish the car and hopefully the yuppy person driving the piece of junk. End of story.

  4. #73
    Guest

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    "Have any of you done research on the new duramax or powerstroke? These motors are great!! They have more horsepower and torque than any of the weenie hybrid cars. If you hit a hybrid car with one of these trucks you will completely demolish the car and hopefully the yuppy person driving the piece of junk. End of story. "

    Don't be so smug. It's proven that body-on-frame trucks without crumple zones are much less safe in a collision than a unibody car with crumple zones, with the possible exception of a t-bone collision.

    Basically in the truck the human body absorbs all the force of the crash, whereas in a unibody car, the crumple zones absorb much of the energy from the collision.

  5. #74
    Guest

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Unibody more durable than body-on-frame? Interesting.

    Honda Prius that makes "295 lb-ft at 0-1200 rpm"?
    Toyota.com lists the 2006 at 82 ft-lbs. For the one I test drove it seems more in line.

    Extolling the virtues of MiMH batteries? Wow.

    Obviously a lot of people have made up their mind.
    I think hybrids would sell better if their owners came across less fanatical. Yes, they sell all they make, but they only amount to about 2% of U.S. manufacturing.

    As mentioned ULSD (ultra low sulfer diesel) is on the way which will clean up diesel's rep as being "dirty." We should see a surge in more diesel cars just like in Europe (over 40% of new cars sold). If they can build clean diesel we should be able to also.

    I haven't bought a diesel or a hybrid yet but I am test driving to see what is available. I am not going to buy a hybrid just because it is a "Toyota" or because it is trendy.

    To be honest, so far, I like driving the VW TDI's much better than the hybrids. Go ahead flame away.

  6. #75
    Guest

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    The hybrids are fine if that's what you like. To me the Prius is dog ugly, and no one I know with a Civic hybrid ever beats 35 mpg in town, Prius isn't much better at 36-38 (and those are the figures owners quote me. I've read here a lot of noise about VW unreliability, most of it third-hand and apportioned wholesale regardless of model year and engine design. But I know for a fact I have hybrid owning friends with loud complaints about malfunctioning engine computer control systems and techs who don't seem to know how to service them. The DIY repair option seems iffy for hybrid owners, I haven't met one yet.

    Hybrids I've driven (Civic, Prius) are very slow, almost dangerously so when doing the 30-70mph freeway 'quick' merge where I live (so as to not get forced off the road by careless drivers in huge semis and construction trucks). Part of the reason I went with a turbodiesel.

    I have been running a VW TDI Jeta on B100 biodiesel mainly for the low particulate and greatly reduced emissions, and still get 40mpg in town with the B100. City-Highway mixed driving gives 46mpg. That's pretty good I think. Oil and filter changes, a set of brake pads, and that sums up the maintenance. DIY repairs/maintenance are relatively easy on a small modern diesel - no need for dealer service.

    One word about diesel engine life. Don't forget that 50% of all diesel cars ever built for the U.S. market are STILL on the road. The guy quoting used car ads for 'evidence' of low diesel engine life had me laughing. Listen, you won't see 250,000-500,000 mile diesel cars for sale in used car ads simply because the owners have already made the economic decision to keep them and drive the wheels off. There's no engineering reason why the later VW turbodiesels can't have the same longevity as earlier VW and Mercedes engines (1,000,000 miles for diesel passenger vehicle engines happens more often than you'd think). You'll never get that kind of longevity out of a complex hybrid gas engine system.

  7. #76
    Guest

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Johntinson:
    "Don't forget that 50% of all diesel cars ever built for the U.S. market are STILL on the road"

    Then why aren't they seen?
    Million mile cars?
    Where's your evidence other than what you say?

    Most Prius owners average around 48MPG
    http://www.greenhybrid.com/compare/m...-priushsd.html

    I guess if one can just post any ol thing regardless of truth then I'll report that hybrids will always save you money, and will always come out ahead.
    They get better 0-60 times as well.

  8. #77
    Guest

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    "Don't forget that 50% of all diesel cars ever built for the U.S. market are STILL on the road"
    Then why aren't they seen?"

    I see them all the time. But most diesel car owners are on the coasts in larger population centers. If you live in Atlanta or elsewhere in the south you might only see a few, that's just buying patterns and demographics. Might try asking a few of your diesel truck neighbors for information on longevity, though, it will surprise you. I can tell you of truck diesels that have racked 750,000 miles in vehicle, then installed for constant-operation in fields as agricultural machinery powerplants (24 hours/day 7days/week) for 20 years!!

    "Million mile cars?
    Where's your evidence other than what you say?"

    How about other long-term diesel owners? You'll have to make the effort to talk to them. How about the newspaper, car magazines, car manufacturer releases? Million-mile Mercedes and Cummins diesel owner stories have appeared for years in the press, I remember seeing my first one in a Car & Driver article in high school back when the Mustang II was the car to get!

    "Most Prius owners average around 48MPG
    http://www.greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/toyota-..."

    Not the Prius-owning friends I've talked to, but I will add your results as an anecdote of '1'.

    "I guess if one can just post any ol thing regardless of truth then I'll report that hybrids will always save you money, and will always come out ahead.
    They get better 0-60 times as well."

    It's impossible to teach you about diesel engines and their engineering in a discussion post, as you appear never to have owned or even studied their operation, mechanical construction, and the benefits of low-rpm operation in terms of engine wear. All I can tell you is that you are where I was several years ago - you only saw an occasional diesel truck or car, blowing smoke, stinking, noisy, complete with uncaring owner at the wheel. Believe it or not, most diesel owners don't have vehicles like that. Once you realize how they operate, how they're built, and the benefits of low-rpm, high torque engine operation, you wouldn't have posted that silliness about lower diesel engine life pulled from used car ads, believe me!

  9. #78
    Guest

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Ahh...you are talking about the large trucks.

    I'll agree a hybrid is not a good choice in that matter...but I thought we were talking passenger cars.

    I've studied diesel autos quite a bit and think they are a great alternative to a regular gasoline passenger vehicle.
    So are some hybrid vehicles.

    A four of my co-workers drives 04 and '05 Jettas and gets mid to upper 30's MPG and don't like their cars for several reasons. One '05 owner says that if it got better mileage it would be OK.
    Are you saying that I should judge *all* diesel autos this way?

    I don't think so.

  10. #79
    Guest

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    Well we have an '04 Jetta wagon and get in fuel economy in the high 40s. Our larger, more powerful Passat is in the high 30s to low 40s.

    Most people buy a diesel or hybrid and think they'll get the rated mileage without altering their driving style. Someone getting in the mid-30s with a Jetta TDI (manual) would probably only get in the mid-20s with a base gas Jetta, so they're still doing better.

    I was driving to work in the Passat this morning at 100 km/h,a speed at which I get about 43 mpg which is better than both the EPA (38 mpg) and Canadian government (42 mpg) ratings. I was passed by a Prius that was doing at least 80 mph. At that speed a Prius is just another gasser with an overworked, underpowered gas engine. I bet he complains that his Prius gets nowhere near its rated mileage on the highway.

    The advantage to a hybrid or diesel is that driven for effieciency, they are capable of outstanding mileage; perhaps even more so for a hybrid.

    However driven like most people do, I suspect based on what I hear, a diesel will produce a better result than a hybrid. It has a low RPM, high torque engine in the speed range that most people use (55-85 mph) whereas a hybrid relies mostly on the gas engine at extended high speeds, and a small 1.5 liter or less gas engine will not be at its best at 80 mph in a car that somewhat larger than is normal for that size engine, so the "hit" taken by driving too fast will be worse than for a diesel.

    At the end of the day I suspect that diesels make the most sense for people like me with 85-90% constant-speed highway driving, and hybrids may make more sense for those with a heavy amount of city driving in their mix. Also a diesel gives you a more "normal" feeling driving experience.

  11. #80
    Guest

    Hybrid or Diesel?

    A diesel engine still contributes to the problems of air quality and dependence on mideast oil. A hybrid owner is choosing to no longer be part of those problems.

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