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Thread: Hybrid Diesels?
05-21-2005 02:34 AM #1
We all know that hybrid and diesel vehicles are more fuel efficient than standard gasoline vehicles. Why not combine both technology of hybrid and diesel together. Imagine a vehicle achieving 80+ mpg.
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05-21-2005 03:35 AM #2
certainly - the concept of recovering energy & using it again later is the best way to squeeze maximum energy out of any fuel.
lately i think we could even use some of our excess battery juice to split water - hydrogen & oxygen - and inject the hydrogen into the combustion engine while driving.
why not? obviously it's a new engine, but the idea of using recovered energy to produce a fuel while the car is parked & used later should be expolored.
05-22-2005 06:38 AM #3
With the gas engine, you have a higher RPM range to take advantage of the instant torque of the electric motor. A diesel has higher torque at a lower RPM and is not known for its high RPM range.
In the FEH, Ford uses the electic motor for its torque and the high RPM's of its gas engine to take over when it gets to an RPM to creates even more torque. A good match for both gas and electric.
I'm not saying diesels can't be designed to work with elecric hybrid. I'll take it a step further (you hear it here), a gas and diesel hybrid. High torque diesel at low RPM's and high torque RPM gas engine. After the gas and diesel work together giving you a quick speed, the diesel could take over in the overdrive CVT mode. Now lets use a large battery and generator to just start these mothers up at a drop of a hat and we have a tribrid.
The generator/battery could run the A/C, power steering, and other 12 volt needs which did draw from the engines power which can shut down at coast and stops.
Anybody want to race by the next gas station?
06-12-2005 07:10 PM #4
I'd love to see a hybrid diesel passenger car made commercially available. But it would be pretty expensive, at least to start with. Even compared to gasoline-electric hybrids. And for that kind of money, you might as well put in some extra Li+ batteries and make your hybrid a plug-in, getting 99-125 mpg.
GM, of all companies, has a hybrid diesel concept in the Opel Astra. Who knows where that will go now that GM is in such desperate straits.
There are also a few different diesel-hybrid buses and other big vehicles.
And as for diesel vehicles' high-rpm performance, I don't think that's such a problem any more. With diesel so popular in Europe, what do you think runs on the Autobahn?
06-12-2005 07:54 PM #5
"One anecdote tells of Formula One driver Jenson Button, who was arrested driving a diesel-powered BMW coupe at 230 km/h (about 140 mph) in France, where he was too young to have a petrol-engined car hired to him. Button dryly observed in subsequent interviews that he had actually done BMW a public relations service, as nobody had believed a diesel could be driven that fast."
The 330cd is quick and does 149mph and 0-60 in 7.2 (7.4 auto) yet gets 42.8 mpg!
06-18-2005 06:05 PM #6
I really think this is the way to go. With a strong commitment by the feds, we could grow and process all the biodiesel we need from algae grown around the Salton Sea.
This is what we should be building right now. In my opinion Ford and GM will go bankrupt before they even begin to catch on.
For about the past year I have offered anyone who would listen the following info: None of the American automobile companies have even responded. I have had some positive response from several educational institutions but - as far as I know - none have done any experimental work to verify my claims.
Here is what I have been proposing:
In one scale or another everyone of these systems have been proven.
Like to produce a vehicle that can burn rubber on takeoff on all four wheels and get 90+ mpg?
What I would like to see the automakers working on would have:
A turbocharged, two cylinder opposed, 2-cycle, air-cooled diesel directly
driving a generator. (It would not be running most of the time.) A 111 volt Lithium-Ion Polymer battery pack. Nothing but wires going from the controller to every wheel, except for the necessary additional friction
brakes (of course). An added advantage of this would be the ability to recharge from the electrical grid while at home, saving even more on fuel.
Each wheel, depending on the feedback to the controller from wheel speed sensors would drive with just the right power depending on the accelerator position. You would get recharging from deceleration just as you do in today's hybrids. You would also use this feedback to stop the wheel from skidding.
Each wheel would have a stationary stator and a series of fixed magnets closely adjacent all around the inside of the wheel. In a sense it would operate each wheel in a very similar fashion that the mag-lev trains use,
except the motion would be circular, of course. Something very different about this type of motor is that the stators are fixed to the axles and the magnets are driven around them. This gives a significant increase in
mechanical advantage. That's like turning an ordinary electric motor inside out.
There would be no need for ordinary electric motor brushes. In fact, many electric motors operating today are brushless.
Such motors already exist in the model airplane field and their efficiently
is amazing - approaching 90%. I've got a couple and doubt that I would ever buy any other type.
It's possible to hang the model on the prop right out in front of you and
accelerate straight up, like a rocket, with this type motor
In the vehicle the motor/generator would not turn on to recharge the
batteries until they needed it. There are already experimental Lithium-Ion
driven cars that can get in excess of 200 miles before they have to be
recharged by plugging them in. You would top off your batteries overnight by plugging them in. Some cutting edge research by Toshiba - employing nano-technology - indicates that recharging can be done so fast that you could top off while eating lunch.
Lithium -Ion battery technology is so new that I doubt that very many
automotive engineers have even heard of them, much less thought to use them in this manner. Their energy density exceeds that of any other form of rechargeable energy storage.
The Lithium Ion battery is the most efficient battery available right now. So is the outer rotor electric motor the most efficient motor.
Build an Automobile right and it will weight less and have simpler, easier to repair/replace modules.
Lets see what we can eliminate while improving performance and efficiency.
Transmission - None
Ignition system - None
Liquid cooling - None
Valves and valve train - None
Use bio-oil/fuels for both fuel and lubrication.
Feel free to pass this along to anyone you know in the Transportation business.
I bought a Honda Civic Hybrid last summer. I enjoy it more than any vehicle I've ever owned. I will Never buy another vehicle that isn't a Hybrid and doesn't get at least 50 mpg.
As far as I can tell, Detroit isn't even thinking the same way I and the vast majority of it's potential customers are.
William Lucas Jones
490 Mauldin Rd.
Sautee, GA 30571-3159
03-01-2006 01:25 PM #7
I'm not really a participant in this discussion, but I'd be interested in feedback on the three-wheel hybrid that's under development here (at my company). There's info on it at: http://www.rqriley.com/xr3.htm The email address I'm providing is my personal address (directly to me), not the company one.
03-01-2006 07:14 PM #8
Robert: It's legally a motorcycle, not a car. Are pictures of the prototype available, or is it just a CAD drawing set? Will the actual vehicle have outside rear-view mirrors? Have you decided on the OEM engine manufacturer yet?
09-13-2006 05:15 PM #9
The engine is a Kubota D902. We'll have construction photos posted soon at the website.
03-11-2007 07:44 AM #10
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
Re Hybrid Diesels?
I am familiar with your work. I think I still have my very first set of Urba Car plans around here somewhere.
I am seriously interested in this vehicle. In fact I also belong to a Yahoo group where the XR-3 is the only topic of discussion.
Good place to check out if you want to see what the enthusiasts are saying.
As always I think you've come up with some very innovative solutions and can't wait to see more detail. The look of the vehicle is very sharp, it will be interesting to see how it evolves once everything comes together.
I think the method of connecting the engines with the road is brilliant. I'm not entirely clear on how the two throttles will mesh together, but I can imagine several possibilities that would work.
I am curious about the rear assembly, which is pretty sketchy so far. But I've already designed a possible horizontal suspension on my own, so it will be interesting to see how close my guess is.
However it's done I hope that the suspension can be kept low enough so that the rear compartment can have a little storage space. That would be a great feature. If it could be accessed from inside the cabin by folding down the passenger seat it would be even better.
One of the things I notice in your current design is that it is a very clean 'ground up' design. I know you've done well with the models that involved salvaged parts, but I really prefer the approach you've taken here. Using 'off the shelf' parts, and not using other vehicles as a base.
I know the cleaner approach normally involves more work for the home builder, (Building the chassis from scratch and such) but I think you've found a nice balance here.
I of course have scads of questions, but as you are clearly a busy guy I'll spare you and wait for updates on your site. I've actually managed to figure out a lot of things by closely studying the renders (At least I think I have). They have been a great help.