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  1. #11
    Guest

    Power generation and vehicle motion

    There is a well-developed suite of electricity-generating turbines available to choose from - for sailboats:

    http://www.cetsolar.com/airmarinex.htm

    http://www.saver.com/product/sailboat_windpower.html

    There's even a discussion on "Which is Better - Wind Generator or Solar Panels?"

    http://www.e-marine-inc.com/articles/art2.html

    But I'm pretty sure none of the manufacturers seriously expect them to be used on cars.


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  3. #12
    Guest

    Power generation and vehicle motion

    i really like your idea about wind turbines in cars. I think though instead of using scoops on the side of the car, the air should be taken in through the front in the grill. I not an expert by any means. The air taken in could in theory be used like a ram air system, like in jet engines except you funnel the air to a turbine on either side of the engine and then down through the frame to another turbine infront of the back axle then out the rear of the vechile. Something like this wouldn't eliminate the gass engine but maybe reduce it in size, thus adding room for a bigger electric motor. The rear turbine would be smaller but used for trickle charging thus gaining more power from one wind motion. Its just an idea I don't know how well it would work, if anyone has thoughts on it i would love to hear it.

  4. #13
    Guest

    Power generation and vehicle motion

    I have to echo Dave's comments on June 3rd.

    Turbines (either placed on the side, or in the intake grill, or anywhere else), will reduce your mileage. They all add wind drag that reduces your effeciency (especially at high speeds).

    Even placing turbines to scavenge air from the grill (engine intake area), will create problems (unless Toyota has not done a good job of balancing the intake air, expansion volume (due to heat) and exit area).

    To make the car better, it seems like you need to focus on a few areas (I think these are in priority order).
    1) Expend less energy to drive it (reduce weight, reduce friction from tires/wind/bearings/etc, accelerate slower, avoid using the brakes if you can coast or use the "B" position instead, etc).
    2) Add free energy (such as the idea of solar panels) when available. Wind turbines will add drag, and cause problems with #1 (above).
    3) Capture the kinetic energy (energy of motion) better. The Prius already does this by using the electric motor to charge the batteries of course.

    I would love to see details on how the solar panels were integrated. I live in the Soutwest (New Mexico) and get full sun approximately 300 days/year. +7 MPG in Boston might end up being +10-15 MPG here in the Southwest.


  5. #14
    Guest

    Power generation and vehicle motion

    In reference to the wind turbine on hybrid cars, I understand why the drag would eliminate any energy gain, but why not take advantage of that fact?

    Why not design a system so that the driver controls a vent which leads to the wind turbine? There could be a button right on the gear shift or the steering wheel which opens the vent.

    When a driver knows he has to brake he presses the button and the car begins to slow gradually due to the drag, but the wind turbine is charging the battery.

    The same goes for downhill grades. On my daily commute I have a steep 2 mile downhill grade which I frequently have to ride the brake on.

    If I had a vent the car's speed could be maintained, but the wind turbine would be generating power for 3-4 minutes. It would reduce wear on my brakes and as one became more and more proficient using the button instead of braking, performance would improve.

    The brake light could go on while the vent is open as a safety feature. Wouldn't using the vent instead of the brake cancel out the loss of energy due to drag?




  6. #15
    Guest

    Power generation and vehicle motion

    In reference to the wind turbine on hybrid cars, I understand why the drag would eliminate any energy gain, but why not take advantage of that fact?

    Why not design a system so that the driver controls a vent which leads to the wind turbine? There could be a button right on the gear shift or the steering wheel which opens the vent.

    When a driver knows he has to brake he presses the button and the car begins to slow gradually due to the drag, but the wind turbine is charging the battery.

    The same goes for downhill grades. On my daily commute I have a steep 2 mile downhill grade which I frequently have to ride the brake on.

    If I had a vent the car's speed could be maintained, but the wind turbine would be generating power for 3-4 minutes. It would reduce wear on my brakes and as one became more and more proficient using the button instead of braking, performance would improve.

    The brake light could go on while the vent is open as a safety feature. Wouldn't using the vent instead of the brake cancel out the loss of energy due to drag?

  7. #16
    Guest

    Power generation and vehicle motion

    I believe the hybrids that use regenerative braking already do what you're proposing with the wind turbines (at least I know my FEH does).... and they don't need this additional system.

    When you let off the accelerator, the vehicle simulates the engine braking of conventional vehicles... basically by applying a small bit of regen braking, and charging the battery. For downhill grades, we have low gear which essentially just applies more braking and recovers more energy. And if you're braking anyway, the existing regen braking system is recovering that energy. No need for an additional, manually controlled system to do what is already being done.

  8. #17
    Guest

    Power generation and vehicle motion

    re: the discussion about wind turbines on automobiles, I would believe that you would be converting some of the power loss (7 -10 hp) by wind drag into reusable energy by recharging the batteries via turbines. The drag caused by the metal body = wasted energy, drag from the turbines= energy gained. The trick would be to design the most efficient air flow and turbine design and taking into consideration both front and rear air drag characteristics of the vehicle.


  9. #18
    Guest

    Power generation and vehicle motion

    maximum theoretical efficiency from windmills is something like 68%. this means there is nearly 32% of energy to never be recovered from windturbine methods. add to this the fact that physical wind turbines (manmade) seledom reach efficiencies above 30%.

    windturbines are great for passive energy recovery like hillsides, but not for hybrids.

    with the current choice of electric generators for car breaking & energy recovery, you're getting nearly 100% of the energy recovered in electrical battery-generating form. ~ along with strong breaking power.

    see ya




  10. #19
    Guest

    Power generation and vehicle motion

    maximum theoretical efficiency from windmills is something like 68%. this means there is nearly 32% of energy to never be recovered from windturbine methods. add to this the fact that physical wind turbines (manmade) seledom reach efficiencies above 30%.

    windturbines are great for passive energy recovery like hillsides, but not for hybrids.

    with the current choice of electric generators for car breaking & energy recovery, you're getting nearly 100% of the energy recovered in electrical battery-generating form. ~ along with strong breaking power.

    see ya




  11. #20
    Guest

    Power generation and vehicle motion

    2
    E=MC

    Doesn't anybody know what this means???

    You can't get more energy than you already have.

    PERIOD.

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