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  1. #1

    Power generation and vehicle motion

    I was considering the following idea of using multiple motors. If I were to use more than one motor I was hoping to run a vehicle from one motor using battery and an power source ie: generator to produce power. The other motor is to run the generator and charge the batteries. With some more consideration I was considering adding a 40w solar panel and an alternator from a car or transport to provide me with running power. With this design I may actually be running probably more than 2 motors but the would not exceed 48v. Would this not create power for consumtion. The generator out puts 120v.

    I am not an electrical genius nor to I fully understand what I am saying but by posting I and hoping to debunk my theroy and see if it would not be feesable.

    Sorry bout spelling too.

    If anyone has any idea what I am trying to say and can assist in me in devising this into a working model it would be appeciated.

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  3. #2

    Power generation and vehicle motion

    Don't bother with solar power for a real automobile. You need an acre of solar cells to run an ultralightweight "car" made mostly of bicycle parts. See the General Motors Sunraycer at http://www.speedace.info/sunraycer_general_motors.htm.

    My thought has been to put a little Honda suitcase-size camping generator in an electric car like the Sparrow (http://www.sparrowelectriccars.com/) to increase range, but a Sparrow costs way more per passenger than a Honda Civic Hybrid, why bother?

  4. #3

    Power generation and vehicle motion

    Or to put it in perspective, the Toyota Prius has a modest sized electric motor and it draws 50 THOUSAND watts of electricity. A 40 watt solar panel probably isn't even enough to provide a maintenance charge on the NIMH pack, much less replenish it.

  5. #4

    Power generation and vehicle motion

    OK i guess I was not clear with what I was saying.

    Lets say I have a 12v battery and a 12v motor and an alternator.

    Now if the 12v motor turns fast enough to turn the aternator to put out a charge and run the motor which it should then the motor that runs the alternator should be powered from the alternators out put and still have enopugh to put out a charge to the battery.

    Now with that said, if we were to run a second motor from this source with the right alternator and planning I figure I could run this second 12v motor may need a more powerful one not sure to run a generator this generator would run a third motor wich would run the the car the drive line.

    Now is all the components are put in line with the proper regulators and control pack and using the motors regen the initial battery or batteries depending on the need to run generator the battery or batteries should maintain a full charge.

    The solar pannel is on supplemental to keep batteries topped when not running and to assist in the charging when and if required.

    Does this theroy make sense and does anybody else feel it should work.

    I do if the right componets are used. Its an equation that must be worked out to meet the demand and surpass it. Even if a more powerful alternator lets say from a transport truck or special purpose vehicle. Also I have heard the some RV's have a lagerenough generator to put out enought to do small welding tasks. Thus the power generation is possible. Just putting the right combination of motors and gears to meet the rpm's to put out the alt and gens potential.

    Any feed back please email or post.


  6. #5

    Power generation and vehicle motion

    and how are you going to compensate for all the extra weight added by all these new motors and generators?

    and what is your end goal here? it sounds like you think you're going to make more energy than you use, which, obviously is impossible given current technology....i'm failing to really understand your plan.

  7. #6

    Power generation and vehicle motion

    I mean "obviously ISNT possible with current technology"

  8. #7

    Power generation and vehicle motion

    hi there I am liveing in castle gar bc and hear we have lots of hills, the surounding toowns are all within 50 km of each other and I just lost my licents, so I am looking to convert my old mountain bike into an electric bike but don't want the charge lag time, I saw (on t.v) a 10kw fuel cell it was about the size of a small suit case now couldent i put this fuel cell in a bike trailer with say a 3-5kw electric motor and a tank of what ever fuel the cell takes and go any were , as long as i had fuel??? and how dose ac convert into dc? dose 10kw dc =10kw ac?? and obviously the hydrogen fuel cell is going to be hard to get fuel for, is there any fuel cells that run off readily available fuel sources with out makeing them to heavy for my project? could i have a deisel fuel cell that would do the same thing ?? once again I am not so worried about fuel mileage as just some form of electric propulsion to move my bicycle from point a to point b and what dose a 10 kw dc generator sell for and can I make my own home made one . I think I only need 3-5kw

  9. #8

    Power generation and vehicle motion

    Wow, how quick we are to shoot down the open-minded...

    We are at the very beginning stages of the hybrid revolution. The technology is still in its infancy and don't expect the industry to speed things along any time soon!
    The auto industry will progress as slow as they feel the public will accept.

    Yes, a 40W solar panel attached to a hybrid system will do practically nothing while driving (and VERY SLOWLY trickle charge the batteries when parked).

    But! Let us take things a little bit further. Using current solar panel technologies, one can design solar into the body panels of an average sized compact and churn out 1000W under optimal lighting conditions. (700W from hood, roof and deck lid, the remaining 300W from side panels as they will produce less power due to non-optimal angles). 1000W DOES make a difference...

    I assisted a friend here in New England adding a 300W solar panel to the deck lid of his Prius. (Not the most aesthetic of applications mind you). He uses this car as a daily commuter driving about 50 miles a day in mixed traffic. We did a small (very unscientific) test... He knew he was averaging about 610 miles to the tank, which was around 51.5 mpg before any modifications. This was in typical Boston-area traffic averaging 70 degrees w/ mostly sunny skies.

    After adding the panel and integrating it into the system (which was surprisingly easy), we tracked the range over a 3 week period and ended up with a 3 week average of 685 miles per tank, which is about 57.5mpg. That is a 7mpg increase!!! There was a downside... We mounted the panel at an angle to the deck lid creating what we could only imagine to be IMMENSE amounts of drag... His straight highway mileage dropped about 10% overall. This could be fixed by mounting the panel flush to the deck lid or integrating the panels into the body itself.

    Now, that was with 1 300W panel mounted very inefficiently. We're assuming that much of this added mileage was due to charging while at work, as the panel probably only produces about 3% of the power required to keep the vehicle moving at 55mph.

    The point here is, there is definitely room to expand on alternate sources of energy to make our hybrid vehicles even more efficient.

    Our next work will be a little bit more extensive. We're trying to locate a vendor that makes high-output flexible solar panels. Currently, the only crap we find puts out about 40% of the power output per square inch of traditional rigid panels. If we are able to locate such a product (even with losing 10% of efficiency) we will cover every exposed body panel of the prius with solar paneling and see what we can gain.

    After that, we have even more extensive modifications to attempt (although we're looking for a donor car for this one as it involves IMMENSE fabrication to the body). We are going to attempt to run 2 12" carbon fiber turbines installed in Indy-car style ram-air tunnels. Our current calculations (based on available wind turbines) guesstimate that we can generate 200W per turbine at 55mph. Each air turbine including alternator and electronics should weigh about 5 lbs. Total weight added to the car will about 50lbs (including fiberglass tunnels). Looking at current turbine technology, a vendor should be able to produce a 12" unit that can generate 400W at 55mph, but there are not many out there designed for high-speed use.

    So, in closing, if we can see gains from the wind-assist turbines as we see from adding solar, we might be able to increase the overall mileage of the prius by 30% or more if we use both.

    Then again, this may all backfire in our face and we could end up wasting thousands... We won't know unless we try and I'm not about to sit back and wait for the auto industry to attempt any of this.

    Imagine a taking a prius and crossing it with Golf TDI diesel. Now cover the vehicle in the most efficient solar panels and attempt to capture some of the energy of the wind using high-speed covered turbines… Couple this with a car created mostly out of composites (very light weight) and you end up with a very expensive car that might be capable of over 100mpg. After a few years of development, the vehicle could even be affordable.

    We have a long way to go… All this talk of the “Hydrogen revolution” makes me sick, as 90% of the proposed ways to generate all of this hydrogen is from fossil fuels.

  10. #9

    Power generation and vehicle motion

    Though your ideas are progressive, there is one fatal flaw in your scenario. You cannot gain ANYTHING by driving turbines from the airflow generated by the car for the simple fact that the energy they produce, MUST come from the car itself. Once you add in any energy losses, the net result will always be less than unity. You cannot create more energy than the system has as a whole.

    Any energy gains have to be external to the system, i.e. the solar panels, gasoline, etc.

    Simply stated, energy out = energy in - losses.

    You can't get something for nothing. Unless you know how to break the laws of physics.

  11. #10

    Power generation and vehicle motion

    Actually, you can set-up turbines, for when the car is stationary. I've seen RV's do this to charge their batteries when there is no hook-up. Using turbines when the vehicle is moving though, is not going to work.

    Here is a concept similar to yours, thats been around for a while, proving that it does work...

    Another neat part of that project is the addition of Li-Ion batteries as well. Here is some more new stuff on Li-S batteries http://www.sionpower.com/pages/sion_...ogysummary.php

    Here are some flexible solar panels.
    Imagine a car cover made out of this stuff. You just cover the car when you park and trickle charge your batteries.

    How about using the cars glass to charge as well? http://www.xsunx.com/

    What about regenerative Hub motors instead of a standard drivetrain?

    There is LOTS of stuff going on. I would not be surprised to see companies come out with all sorts of neat add-ons for Hybrids.

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