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  1. #71

    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed

    Body wear, tear & corrosion-
    If the engines were still good & strong at +100K miles there should be a market for those hundreds of thousands of un-rebuilt engines after the bodies have fallen away.

    There is no such market for an unrebuilt high mileage diesel engine.
    Why? People don't want to buy a worn out engine.

    Here in the Southern U.S. very little salt is seldom used, and bodies do indeed last +50 years. But the engines and drive trains do not.
    Diesel is no exception.

    Can anyone provide a link to a business that sells unrebuilt high mileage used diesel engines?

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  3. #72

    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed

    What diesel manufacturer is Steve talking about ?
    Like I wrote before. Audi, MB, VW and BMW
    diesel last forever. Ask a taxi driver in Europe
    (99% are diesels) how long their diesel cars last.
    They will tell you "forever"!!
    Maybe Steve is talking about the converted GM
    gasoline engine?

  4. #73

    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed

    "Audi, MB, VW and BMW
    diesel last forever. Ask a taxi driver in Europe
    (99% are diesels) how long their diesel cars last.
    They will tell you "forever"!!
    Maybe Steve is talking about the converted GM
    gasoline engine?"

    Without any research it is all hearsay.
    All my research points otherwise and I provide links.

  5. #74

    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed

    BTW I'm not really anti-diesel even if it comes off that way.

    If someone posts false claims regarding hybrid cars I'll challenge that as well.

  6. #75

    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed

    The main reason why diesel engines last twice as
    long on average as the average gasoline engine
    is the fact that diesels does not pollute the engine
    oil with unburned fuel while warming up. It does
    not run "rich" until reaching operating temperature
    and no unburned fuel pass between the piston and
    cylinder wall.
    However on a gasoline engine the ECU adds extra
    gas so the engine does not stall while warming up.
    Some of the gasoline condenses on the colder than
    normal cylinder wall and ends up in the oil causing
    wear and tear. The quicker the engine warms up the less wear. This is a reason why cars should
    be allowed to warm up idling. It takes longer to
    reach operating temperature than when driving
    (engine at higher rpm). A few cars on the market
    has direct injection gasoline engines and that
    alliviate most of the problem with cold starts.
    On these cars and on diesels one can drive much further between oil changes due to much less unburned fuel getting into the oil.

  7. #76

    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed

    above should read "cars should NOT be allowed to
    warm up by idling"

  8. #77

    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed

    I bought a 1996 Passat diesel new. It has 260,000 miles on it. I think that's around 400,000 kilometers. I must say that when the car had a little over 100,000, I switched all my cars from regular to synthetic oil, 5-30w, year round.
    The engine has had two major (at least I call them major) repairs; the intake manifold had to be removed and cleaned.
    Once for $150, and a second time for $250.

    How does the car run? It gets 45 mpg at 80 mph. It burns about a quart of oil in 5,000 miles. I change oil at seven to ten thousand miles or when I get around to it.

    Starting the car. At thanksgiviing, I told my sons I was going to try an experiment. The temp was to drop well below freezing. I'd park the car outdoors with no block heater or any type of heater. In the morning, I'd see if it would start.
    Well, I turned the key and waited for the glow plug light to go out. It took 25-30 secs. I turned the key and it gave
    an angry groan for a second or so. I turned the key for a second shot. This time it took about 15 seconds for the glow plug light to go out. A second try and it was turning over but ever so painfully. A third try and the engine issued
    the familiar sound, BANGIDDY! GIDDDYBANGIDDY KABOOMBIDDY, kaboom, bing, RRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
    Ran like a charm.

  9. #78

    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed

    Bill there must be something wrong with the 96 Passat.
    It should start w/o problems once the glow plug light
    is out the first time even if the temp is at minus 15 F.
    Maybe one of the glowplugs are out?

  10. #79

    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed

    Bjorn and Bill, where do you guys live?
    If you're in Europe that might explain the taxicab comment and perhaps the diesels there are very different from the States.
    I have some friends in Asia and they prefer diesels there also. But it isn't for the vehicles, it's because gasoline is allot more expensive.

    Here in the States hybrid cars hold their appreciation better.

    Refer to Kelly BlueBook, http://www.kbb.com/ (the leading car price reference here in the States and is used by banks and automotive dealers:

    It shows my 2004 HCH in excellent condition and driven 60K miles has lost $2,000 since new:

    I also researched the Jetta GL 9.1 TDI Sedan 4D under identical criteria and it lost more than twice the amount at $4,500:

    >>>> I wonder why I am the only one posting reference links? <<<<
    It seems verifiable references aren't necessary when discussing diesel autos.

  11. #80

    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed

    As far as VW is concerned the diesels they sell in Europe are essentially the same engines they sell here. The exception is that the N. American engines are detuned in order to meet emissions regulations on high sulphur fuel. The same basic 90 hp TDI engine we had here for years until the newer unit injection engines, puts out 110 hp in Europe and 189 (if memory serves) lb-ft of torque vs 90/155 in N. America. Europe also has a 90 hp version but it doesn't have the variable vane turbo that the N. American engine has. The N. American 90 hp is identical to the 110 Euro except for the ECU mapping. The newer unit-injection engine requires less de-tuning to achieve the same results as Europe; it makes 100 hp here, and 105 over there.

    Some of the newer technology like the 170 hp engine with piezo injectors has yet to make it to these shores. The 134 hp 2.0 L engine in my Passat is actually a simpler engine than the 2.0 140 hp engine in Europe; the latter has a 16 valve head, the former, an 8 valve head. It should last a very long time. My biggest concern is the auto transmission with the 247 lb-ft of torque.

    Much of the bad rap diesels got in N. America was due to GM's misguided attempt to put a diesel head on a gasoline cylinder block. The cylinder block couldn't take the very high cylinder pressures and ended up cracking prematurely, sometimes with less than 40,000 miles on them.

    I can assure Steve that 500,000 km diesel automobiles are not unheard of, and 300,000 km is a piece of cake for a VW or Mercedes diesel (or Peugeot or Volvo for that matter, who had them here as well for a time!

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