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  1. #241
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    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed

    Hot Georgia,

    One other thing about the EV1 range. The Gen2 with the NiMH batteries was quickly cobbled together by GM to break the 100 mile barrier that allowed each to count as 2 zero emissions vehicles for the California ZEV mandate. Therefore, they took shortcuts and didn't redesign the battery pack to handle the warmer NiMH batteries, instead, they just ran the air conditioner through the pack. Were the battery pack designed properly, one could probably have achieved 160 mile real-world range. If the hot shot geniuses at GM that designed the EV1 had been given the chance to design an EV2, the performance would have been all the better - maybe even a diesel hybrid option too.

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  3. #242
    Guest

    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed

    Completely different than a hybrid. Car will run on
    batteries only. Something like an EV...lol, but can
    be charged from an outlet or generator. Leave the
    generator at home during regular trips. Bring it along
    for the few longer trips. Got the picture?

  4. #243
    Guest

    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed


  5. #244
    Guest

    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed

    Thanks Moveon, that was a good read and good write up about his vehicle although too bad he made some typical stereotype hybrid remarks such as their usefullness city vs highway.

    Thanks for the link!
    -Steve

  6. #245
    Guest

    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed

    The Plot of 2001

    A week before leaving office Clinton signed an
    excecutive order to make gasoline and diesel fuel
    practically sulphur free. With a week after taking
    office Bush cancelled this order. I believe the
    intent was to delay or stop super clean diesel cars from getting a big market share is the USA like
    in Europe where the gas and diesel have only 15ppm. It also stopped the DI gasoline engines
    to become popular because without the ultra low
    sulphur gasoline the do not save much gas.
    After a lot of pressure on the government the
    fuel we need is mandatory this fall, but not before
    the hybrid cars got a foothold at great expense
    for carbuyers and in government subsidy using
    taxpayers money. This delay in implementing
    clean fuel is why hybrids are basicly sold only in
    the US.
    http://www.emercedesbenz.com/Feb06/2...sCLS30CGI.html

  7. #246

    Its the noise stupid

    Diesels are noisy.

    I live in France and Paris is the noisest city in the world. If the 60% diesel trucks and cars here were replaced with quiet hybrids, imagine !

  8. #247
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    diesel vs gasoline

    when refining crude oil its not a choice of which do w make today. refining yields a basket of products from heavy to light. the yield of each is relatively fixed depending on the grade of the oil. so its not a matter of lets make diesel instead of gas. Diesel costs more than gas because of supply and demand. the more people switch to diesel the higher the price will go. Unless we start refining a lot more oil.
    it seems obvious to combine the advantage of hybrids with the better efficiency of the diesel engine to get even better fuel economy.
    also, watch for cidi engines coming in a year or so. these are diesel engines burning gas. diesel referring to the engine design, not the fuel.

  9. #248
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    Here is why Diesel will ultimately fail...

    MOST people do not want the stuff on their hands... When you get it on you you can't get it off. People, including me, will gravitate to the cleaner, easier, and less smelly way of driving cars...

  10. #249
    Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamsancho69 View Post
    when refining crude oil its not a choice of which do w make today. refining yields a basket of products from heavy to light. the yield of each is relatively fixed depending on the grade of the oil. so its not a matter of lets make diesel instead of gas. Diesel costs more than gas because of supply and demand. the more people switch to diesel the higher the price will go.
    Straight fractionation will yield a ratio which is determined by the grade of oil, but that hasn't provided enough gasoline in decades, so heavier fractions are cracked into lighter ones, typically gasoline. It would be easier and cheaper to crack it into diesel (less refining necessary) but the demand is for gasoline. Diesel costs more in the US because 1. in winter it competes with heating fuel, and 2. year-round it's taxed at a higher rate.

    Unless we start refining a lot more oil.
    it seems obvious to combine the advantage of hybrids with the better efficiency of the diesel engine to get even better fuel economy.
    We can agree there.

    also, watch for cidi engines coming in a year or so. these are diesel engines burning gas. diesel referring to the engine design, not the fuel.
    If by diesel engine design you mean compression ignition and high and variable air/fuel ratios, no. The new generation of direct injection gasoline engines can run at high air/fuel ratios at minimal load, but 1. will require diesel-like exhaust treatment (the standard gas cat won't work) and 2. at anything more than low load will run at stoichiometric, thereby incurring throttle losses.

  11. #250
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    Oct 2006
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    Sry for the late reply

    The matter to me hangs on one simple question, "Am I able and willing to run on a high blend (50% or better) of biodiesel?" I've run my Jetta TDI on 100% Biodiesel for 45k miles now. Yes, I had to go out of my way to fuel up every week and a half until a station was installed near my home. Yes I've been paying $3 a gallon the entire time. But it was worth it to me to help support an emerging alternative fuel. So I ask all you politically-aware hybrid owners...how much petroleum do you use? How much (net)* CO2 do you pump into the air? For me the answer is nearly zero. And that's why I drive a diesel.

    Hybrids are cool, but the actual mileage gain from the hybrid tech itself isn't worth the cost, to me. The best hybrids now get their mileage from other techs that any car could adopt, such as auto-shutoff, lighter materials and the mileage display.

    I get 42mpg and I don't put one (net)* ounce of CO2 in the air. I drive 50 miles a day which means for the last three years I've personnally prevented a whole lot of CO2 from going in the air and a whole lot of money from going overseas. Yes I'm a smug, self-satisfied bastard! And you can be one too with a diesel! But check out the new crop of cars coming from Europe since they improved diesel standards in the US. In the next year or so the diesel market should get really interesting.

    * All CO2 produced by burning biodiesel was extracted from the air by the plants used to make it.

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