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  1. #131

    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed

    I always take vague claims on posts with a grain of salt, especially when no research links are provided.
    A couple of observations:
    He gets better mileage but does not say how much. "Much less" soot is mentioned but provides no reference.
    I haven't found any studies that claim it is easier on the motor, and there are ZERO proof that on the average diesel autos last 450K miles, let alone 650.
    It is mentioned that bio costs 15% less but very few entrepreneurs embrace it for "little money in bio" (?)
    Fresh popcorn aroma comment and 450K mile seems to be a stretch...what else is?
    I could make a long, glowing paragraph about hybrids and mix speculative half-truths about it without references.
    Perhaps Bio is "the wave of the future" and perhaps not. Verifyable facts go alot further.

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  3. #132

    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed

    1. One of the points missed with Biodiesel vs. Gas/Hybrid vs. Diesel/hybrid is the fact that bio diesel IS diesel fuel. ASTM has specs published for the fuel. It can use the same infrastruture as we use today for moving biodiesel. It's not like hydrogen (low energy density/ storage issues/no infrastructure...)or ethanol where you have to retune the engine and find a way to economically transport it (Can't use petro-pipelines, alcohol causes water to precipitate inside the pipeline and cause corrosion issues). Biodioesel is a one for one replacement for petro diesel.

    2. As with Gas-To-Liquid fuels, biodiesel is cleaner that petro-diesel. No soot and a low level of fine particulate.

    3. Bio-diesel is non-toxic and bio-degradable.

    4. Bio-diesel is CO2 neutral.

    5. Processing bio-diesel is a faster/safer process that cracking crude oil.

    6. Biodiesel can be made for waste vegetable oil and even animal fat. In a well run process the only waste products should be water and glycerin, which has its own market.

    7. With the removal of sulfur from petro diesel, the lubricity of the fuel has been severly reduced. The injectors on an engine will coke up. Biodiesel has excellent lubricity and preserves injector performance even in mixes as low as B5.

    8. Reduces the trade deficit and provides a new market for American Ag.

    As an aside:

    If we want to see how to make a good hybrid, look at the BIG earth moving/hauling machines used in the mining business. They are pure electric drivetrain vehicles that use diesel generators. These machines cost millions and have to be reliable. We need to get rid of the mechanical drivetrain. It has too many moving parts and wastes too much energy via friction. The auto companies, including the Japanese, have not used this design. Even a plug-in-hybrid would have been a better first product that what they are selling today.

  4. #133

    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed

    Thank you Max.
    Can you provide any references for:

    No soot & low level partculate
    Non-toxic and bio-degradable
    CO2 neutral
    Faster and safer
    The water and glycerin market
    No injector problems

    You've also described the modern diesel-electric locomotive, and works well.
    I have forgotten the reason, but I've heard that paticular setup won't work as efficiently in our autos.

  5. #134

    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed

    Sorry, I don't carry water for everybody. If you are on the Web then go to the EPA web site and you will find most of the info. The rest is intuitively obvious to the casual observer, e.g.. all ag derived fuels are pretty much CO2 neutral. They absorb CO2 during growth and resperation and release it when burns....

  6. #135

    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed

    Steve...you ask for refernces from others, but not
    from yourself....look at what you wrote on Apr07
    NO reference.....


    Take time to read above links or also type in
    a search engine "Diesel engines lasts longer"
    then you will find many references to the durability
    of the dieselengine.
    One of the reasons for less wear on diesel has to
    do with the type of fuel and the firing method in
    the cylinder. Gasoline has a high wear during warmup due to unburned gas on the cylinder wall.
    This does not happen inside a diesel engine since
    there is not a rich mixture while warming up.

  7. #136

    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed

    Re where we buy the oil from.
    It does not matter if we buy all the oil imported
    to the USA from Canada or the Middle East.
    Its a world commodity. What we dont buy from
    them will be sold to others.
    Its amazing that so many people don understand
    that. Even newsmedia dont always get it.
    If we want to lower the flow of money to
    terrorist supporting countries we need to reduce
    consumption and using diesel cars is a reliable
    off the shelf and cheap technology to do so.
    In addition we can mix biodiesel into the petroleum
    diesel. In addition diesel cost much less to produce
    and require less energy as well to be made.

  8. #137

    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed

    Look at this link Steve...any comments?
    Performance diesel maybe?

  9. #138

    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed

    Thanks for the reply Bjorn.

    This is a review from a single owner, I'm glad he liked his car.

    The other link:
    "diesel engines typically last longer than gasoline-powered engines"

    Interesting they'd print that despite no actual proof what-so-ever other than perpetuating the popular myth.

    Bjorn thanks for your links, at least you had provided some instead of suggesting readers endevor a fishing trip to the EPA website.

    Really, I'm NOT an anti-diesel person but rather believe truth in claims are important.
    You make some very good points in your reduction of foreign reliance but I don't think diesel is the savior. Neither is hybrid cars.
    I can't help but think perhaps the next technology will be a good one, hopefully some form of EV.

    I don't have time at the moment, I'd be glad to provide some reference if you wish... but the main contributing factor to warm-up wear is the lack of lubrication on rubbing/rolling parts rather than rich fuel.

  10. #139

    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed

    Hi Steve

    I can add myself to that "single person who thinks
    the TDI is great and I know many more.

    I know that the wear during warmup is caused by
    condensing rich gasoline present in the cylinder.
    Todays oils are so fluid even in cold weather that they flow immidiately to where needed.
    Since diesel use direct injection that engine will
    not have the wear problem.

  11. #140

    Diesel vs. Hybrid: A Point Missed


    Look thru this link...lots of info..pay attention to
    the article how diesels keep their value.
    As for as value goes....take a look at asking
    prices for diesels in for example Autotrader.com
    VW/MB diesel cars are much more money.
    They just have a much lower depriciation than
    the gasoline version.


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