This discussion thread started in another topic. I copied it under this topic, so visitors could find and join the debate.

Brad Berman, Editor
Hybridcars.com

You know people need to forget about HYBRIDS CARS and THINK DIESEL!!!!You can get the passat TDI 2.0 More Power Cost A HELL less the the Honda,Last longer,Get WAY BETTER MPG and it take 60,000 for the car to break in..But People are soo backward because thay think DIESEL are slow,stink and not at all powerfull.Well if that was the case why is soo hard to find a TDI VW DIESEl ..Because thay work and get the MPG if not better!.I live In Cary NC and I had a few TDI Diesel and I run Biodiesel Diesel in them.I ca drive the car @ 100 miles per hr. and still get 40 mpg..show me a car that can do that and not a 2 seater like the insite..and I drive a 03 Bug and I am 6'2 fit in it just fine make a great car to travel in...People Think Diesel for get the HYBRID CRAP Does not work in the long run.!!!Wake Up and Burn the BEAN!!BIODIESEL I can get 740 mls per tank wost was 715 on a 15gal tank! I get 45 to 48 city .50 + on the high way ....

Got Diesel?
Jan. 09, 2005

Diesel doesn't make sense to everyone, as hybrids do not make sense for everyone either. To act as if either one is the best type of car for each and every person is ignorant. For example, so people don't like spewing out more (possibily carcinogenic) particulate emissions and nitrous oxide (that contributes to smog). Now perhaps biodiesel eliminates this emission issues, I don't know. I do know that biodiesel is not avialable in many areas of the country and that diesel is more expensive in some areas, at least partially eating up possible fuel efficiency benefits?


BTW, perhaps you have some proof that "hybrids don't work in the long run?"

Micheal
Jan. 09, 2005

The choice between diesel and gas-electric hybrid definitely depends on your commute. In city driving, hybrids are great, but OTR, I wouldn't have anything but a diesel. Oddly enough, I have a diesel and my daily commute is about 3.7mi of stop and go. Go figure. I guess I do take my fair share of road trips though.

The question of particulate matter is not always as simple as A emits more than B. It is certainly carcinogenic, but the size of particulate matter is important also. Large particulate matter(diesel) usually falls to the ground quickly, or is caught by you body's natural defenses(mucus, hair, cough, etc). Small particulate matter(gasoline, also carcinogenic) is more likely to find its way into your lungs.

NOx is an issue for smog, but it depends on certain conditions. Some scientists now think they see an effect called "weekend smog." As I understand it, this is where smog is actually more prevalent on the weekends because there is less NOx in the air. More time and research will tell if this is real or not. Hey, you never know... they used to think the world was flat!

By saying "hybrids don't work," I think the earlier poster was looking at longevity(and costs). Right now, the inital cost premium of a hybrid is more than that of a diesel powertrain. Then you have the batteries. Eventually they will need replacement, and at what cost(replacement, disposal, and pollution)? It might be just the same as any other regular maintenance, but what happens if it comes out to be far more than that? You have yourself a throw-away car.

Or maybe he was just saying that for most people, they don't get the highly touted EPA numbers. Diesels on the other hand, are spot on, if not slightly better for most people.

I don't have a problem with hybrids, I'm just skeptical of their ability to live up to the hype(especially after seeing what most people are getting for mileage), and confused at why there is so much emphasis on them when diesels are proven technology and readily available.

I'll delay judgement on the Accord Hybrid until they are present in greater numbers, but there is one question I have for Honda: Why not use some of the technology from the this hybrid on your other cars?

I understand this car has advanced weight-saving techniques used, along with the ability to run on less than 6 cylinders while cruising. Why not do that on the normal V6? Or the 4cyl cars? I think the answer is because that's where a lot of the fuel savings is found, maybe moreso than the hybrid aspect.

Ok, I think that's enough. See ya at the pumps(from the other side !

SnoopisTDI
Jan. 11, 2005

I've had diesels and now have a hybrid. One factor that hasn't been mentioned so far is the repair frequency and long-term reliability of cars made by Honda, VW and Toyota. After looking at Consumer's Reports, a hybrid semed like a better choice for me.

Scott
Jan. 11, 2005

Car and Driver also did a comparo with the following three vehicles a couple months ago:

Toyota Echo
VW Jetta Turbodiesel
Toyota Prius
Honda Civic Hybrid

The Jetta actually got worse gas mileage than both hybrids while being less responsive and less fun to drive than either of them. It was better than the Echo, but the Echo is a POS anyway. The other limitation is that the most powerful turbodiesels only have about 100 horsepower compared to the 255 that the Accord Hybrid has, and the Accord is far cleaner and doesn't smell bad like a diesel. Biodiesel is only available at about 0.03% of fueling stations compared to diesel which is available at around 30%.

Photosmith
Jan. 11, 2005