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  1. #31

    When Hybrids will be worth it.

    I've just filled my Grand Caravan for $29.00. Gas cost $1.79 at Quicktrip in an Atlanta suburb.

    I can go about 300 miles on that $29.00
    I also filled up my HCH for $18. It will go about 650 miles.

    The cheapest I remember was back mid-60's at eleven or twelve cents per gallon.

    "I believe only Iraq, Iran, Kazakhstan and United Arab Emirates have oil wells that have yet to peak in production."

    Vince, you forgot to mention Alaska and Canada. They say each of these oil fields are potentially larger than even the Saudis, and Canadian's have recently found out how to cheaply remove the sand. They're working on a Alaska-Canadian-U.S. pipeline.

    Personally I don't go for all the end of the world hoo-blah. I just want to see how far my 1$ can get me down the road. I don't have a problem with someone buying a large vehice, just don't try to push me down the road wit it.

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  3. #32

    When Hybrids will be worth it.

    Its been a while since I posted to this thread, but like any good thread, it keeps on going. I've been enjoying my new 05 Prius so I haven't taken the time to check here much.

    I believe the Canadian tar sands potentially have a lot of oil, 300 billion barrels or so. I think it is also roughly 10 times more expensive to get this oil than from a Saudi or Iraq well. Since oil prices are high, there is a lot of activity in these tar sands. I'm not sure of Alaska.......The environmental costs--not just in losing a "nice place to visit"-- but the real dollar-costs of getting this oil make it un-economical.

    The problem with only looking at a small economic system, such as my own personal savings, is that the hidden costs get lost. Burning fuel costs us money: when we buy it, the health care costs related to pollution, the costs due to global-warming-induced weather pattern chages, hurricanes, tornados, crop damage, drought, etc., the costs associated with using our Defense dollars to protect, and fight for oil, the costs in soldiers lives fighting a war for oil, etc. These costs are real, they are just spread out so that we don't see them when we fill up. If you look at a larger system, conservation removes all these costs, and saves you money.

    There is no end-of the world hoo-blah going on. Gasoline prices are going up as well as the related costs. Oil production around the world will peak, oil demand is rising exponentially. It is impossible to provide exponentially growing production, production takes time and fewer large oil fields are being found. On the other hand--conservation is immediate.

    Hybrids are worth it now for me on the small scale, and definitely worth it for the country as a whole.

  4. #33

    When Hybrids will be worth it.

    Hi, new to the board and just recently purchaed a '05 HCH. I have not seen anyone yet mention the state tax incentives that offset HEV costs. I live in Connecticut and my state jsut passed a law (October 2004) that eliminates sales tax on hybrid vehicles that get more than 40 MPG (EPA est.) including only the HCH, Prius, and Insight through 2008. NOT the escape, accord, or hylander since these don't get >40 MPG. The savings for me was an instant $1,300 off of the price of the car! Couple that with the $500 federal savings and i am nearly covering the cost of the hybrid (assuming ~$2,000 premium). An added bonus of the new CT law is that the sales tax is also exempt fo the purchase of used >40 MGP HEVs through 2008. This means that if i sell my hybrid before 2008 the resale value may hold better (due to the sales tax incentive) and then i can purchase another before the exemption expires. Hopefully other states will follow Connecticut's lead.

  5. #34

    When Hybrids will be worth it.

    i bet hybrids will become commonplace between the current demand and the fact that the extra elements are actually simplistic & don't add much to the cost of a car.

    it's easy to think retail prices tell the full story of "cost", but if manufacturers can supply a common engine with a suplemental electric & battery pack to get power they can easily commonize most of the cars in their product line to just one or two engines & one or two electric motors.

    with the acord's concept of being able to drop one or two cylinders out of use when not needed the whole package of "hybrid" becomes a very attractive. simple common manufacturing. put a different shell over the car & consumers think it's a different thing! just look at all the SUV's. they are really rooted at a common frame & common engine.

    marketing is what drives the price.

    you really thing a Lexus is worth the extra $20,000? then you deserve to own one! you're just adding $20,000 to the bottom line of the dealer & manufacturers.

    see ya

  6. #35

    When Hybrids will be worth it.

    Can anybody out there help me find some concrete marketing analysis' on the hybrid markets? Without having to fork over cash for the info.

  7. #36

    When Hybrids will be worth it.

    You could probably find your info at:

  8. #37

    When Hybrids will be worth it.

    If you are looking at saving money then buying a hybrid is not what you want. You will spend $100.00 per month MORE out of your pocket after figuring gas savings compared to buying a completely loaded ScionXA to the Toyota Prius.

    This is not including higher maintaince costs on the hybrid, higher ownership costs and higher insurance (I have the lowest insurance bracket rates and the Prius is $50.00 a month more than the XA.)

    Hybrids are not worth it. their increase in milage is only marginal at best (Prius get's 45mpg in reality not what they claim)

    If you want to make yourself feel better, buy the hybrid. if you want to save money and get great gas mileage buy the gas mizer. the XA is a great car, is very roomy and can be sporty when you want it to be.

  9. #38

    When Hybrids will be worth it.

    Bill Gates, your blanket statement is not factual.

    It depends on how you drive.
    For example a person who drives 5 miles to/from work will not see any savings.

    However in my case I drive almost 100 miles/day.
    My fuel savings over the past two years have either paid the premium or funded our family's trip to Panama, FL last fall.

    There are zero additional hybird maintenance costs over a regular car.`We moved our autos from State Farm to Geico and save around $800/yr.

    Many Prius owners are averaging upper 50's and into the 60's.

    I've driven my Honda Civic Hybrid 941 miles at 69.2MPG. Most people average 47-48MPG.

    Compare that to ScionXA's 32MPG.
    (Do a google search for verification)

    Why buy a ScionXA when the model xB has a dual market?
    When you've finished with it you can pop out the windscreen, remove the engine and sell it to the Amish. Connect a team of horses for near zero emmissions. Win-Win. You might have to get it towed to Pennsylvania though.

  10. #39

    When Hybrids will be worth it.


    Anyone who has been around them knows that horses are hardly zero emissions ;-)

    Seriously though. I see the economics as an investment in the future when you go with Hybrids, electrics, or even diesels.

    Now, when gas is a cheap US$3/gal, it isn't an issue, however, we know that these days of cheap gas aren't going to last forever. By buying the most efficient cars the industry is willing to sell us, we are sending a clear message to the auto industry that we are supporting them in their efforts to reduce fuel consumption (hopefully to zero eventually).
    Hybrid technology is in its infancy. It is not a cheap commodity technology like pure Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) technology is, therefore, it comes at a premium price. This is similiar to what ICE vehicles did to those filthy horses around the turn of the century. A favorite cry was "Get a Horse" since the benefit wasn't overwhelmingly obvious. Eventually, however, enough visionaries saw the benefits of the automobile and were willing to pay for them so that now, they are pretty good and we can actually afford them.

    It's time to move out of the 1800's now!

    By supporting these new technologies in their infancy, you show that you are willing to pay so that our children will know the same wonderful world of affordable transportation that we have. This shows the financial planners that it is worth investing more money in making them even better.

    Oh by the way, it is kind of fun sticking it to the oil companies as well - but you need a pure EV in order to do that.

  11. #40

    When Hybrids will be worth it.

    "As I see it, if you are willing to drive a compact vehicle with marginal performance, you can find that now without the premium price of a Hybrid."

    That's not true. Discounting VW diesels, you can get a Honda Civic with 140 hp that gets 5.7 l/100 km on the highway. You can get the new Yaris seden with 5.3 l/100 km on the highway; both cars are capable of less than 10 second 0-60 times wich is better than many V8 SUVs. You can get a Mini that's 6.1 l/100 km. You can even get an Audi A4 (non-Quattro) with a 200 hp turbocharged engine with 207 lb-ft of torque, that's rated for 6.2 l/100 km on the highway. A Toyota Matrix is rated for less than 6 l/100 km on the highway; a Corolla is not much worse than a Yaris in fuel consumption. A fully loaded Corolla LE with leather is definitely not a sh!tbox!

    There are plenty of compact cars (gas and diesel) on the road that get great mileage, and there are very few cars left that have "marginal performance".

    The problem is one of perceived "need". Few people "need" an SUV. The funniest one I've ever heard was "I need an SUV because I have to tow my powerboat on a trailer"...for families that need to carry lots of luggage, there are good station wagons out there (though they are few and far between). For those who need more than 5 seats, most minivans are at least marginally more efficient than an SUV.

    Hybrid SUVs? You can't defy the laws of physics. Hybrid or otherwise, an SUV will burn more fuel than is needed to do the job that most families require of it.

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