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  1. #1
    Junior Member
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    Oct 2007
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    Timing Belt/chain Intervals

    Hey Guys

    I Received Your Comments About My Mpgs. Thank You
    I Am Now Getting 47 Around Town. I Am Very Happy With That. I Can Not Wait To Take It Out On A Long Road Trip.

    Now For The Question. What Is The Interval For The Timing Belt/chain On The Hch2? I Could Not Find The Information Anywhere. My Vw Tdi 06 The Info. Was All Over The Place

    Help!!

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  3. #2
    Junior Member
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    Oct 2006
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    brhch2luv:

    Glad to hear you are enjoying your vehicle !!!

    The HCH does not have a typical belt. Instead, it has a what is often called a CAM chain. This chain is expected to last the useful life of the engine and should be inspected every time the valves are adjusted. By the way, the valve adjustments are only performed if absolutely required as well (as in, they are noisy) and can be performed at almost any service interval (A,B, 1,2,3).

    I expect my "timing chains" to outlive the useful life of the car.

    Cheers;

    MSantos

  4. #3
    Junior Member
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    Nov 2007
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    Timing Chain

    I believe if memory serves me correctly, the book that came with my 2007 HCH stated that the timing chain should be checked around 110K-120K.

    MACHD

  5. #4
    A bit off topic: I think valves that are too tight (not enough gap between valve stem and tappet) will not be noisy, and this would likely be more dangerous than too loose valves. They don't seat properly, allowing blow-by gas, not transferring heat from the valve to the seat area, ultimately causing burned valves.

    As the engine breaks-in the valves will seat more uniformly, ride up a little higher, and reduce the gap between the valve stem and tappet. If this was the only factor, it would be fairly typical for valves to get "tighter" as an engine goes through break-in.

    In reality, there are other factors. I would guess increased play in the tappets and wearing of the cam lobes, for example.

    I've inspected/adjusted valves on a number of our previous Hondas, and I can't recollect ever finding valve clearances reducing. Typically there was a moderate increase in clearance, when the car was in the lower mileage, and then minor increase in clearance with car at intermediate mileage.

    But, I think it could happen. I do think Honda is short-sighted in their directive to only inspect valves if they're noisy. I think it would be worthwhile to check earlier. I was on the cusp of doing it myself, but for now have chickened out: it is a royal pain digging down to get clear access to the valve cover and it's hold-down bolts/nuts.

    There is an elaborate wiring harness over top of the valve cover, and just getting it sufficiently out of the way involves removing other items, likely the aircleaner box for starters. I got started and then thought I was getting out of my depth. Maybe I should have persevered...

    MSantos, anything you can share regarding the importance of earlier valve checks, the likelyhood of valves tightening? I think the rest of the community here all strongly suspect you are a service manager, or similar. At any rate, your advice is always deadly.

  6. #5
    Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mendel Leisk View Post
    But, I think it could happen. I do think Honda is short-sighted in their directive to only inspect valves if they're noisy. I think it would be worthwhile to check earlier. I was on the cusp of doing it myself, but for now have chickened out: it is a royal pain digging down to get clear access to the valve cover and it's hold-down bolts/nuts.
    Good points, Mendel.

    Honda often reserves the right to revise/update its service recommendations and maintenance procedures. They have done that many times and it depends primarily on the field data they collect. You may have a point and without looking more carefully into this issue I am inclined to agree with you on this one as well.
    However, these recommendations & procedures were devised by the engineering groups and I compelled to respect their technical competency, confidence and recommendations as I would expect from any fellow engineer.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mendel Leisk View Post
    MSantos, anything you can share regarding the importance of earlier valve checks, the likelyhood of valves tightening? I think the rest of the community here all strongly suspect you are a service manager, or similar. At any rate, your advice is always deadly.
    I agree, more frequent valve checks cannot hurt at all. In an "ideal world" I would agree that everyone should consider a more aggressive maintenance routine than the recommended intervals.
    However, in our "real world" the issue of diminishing returns and heightened cost of ownership plays a strong hand for most folks.
    If I recall correctly, the recommended valve adjustment involves a great deal of work (every 100K miles or 160K KM) and on its own, can still amount to a pretty pricey tab for most folks. I am certain that this type of work on the HCH, is not for the casual/average shade-tree mechanic at all. Not only because of the special tools that are called for, but also the proper service information and clearance information is hard to find at most auto parts stores.

    Anyhow, as far as I know... actual valve tightening is very unusual. As the valve guides wear off, the valve seating is unlikely to remain optimal and if anything, the seating will be compromised - maybe that is what you mean? So, technicians are directed to verify/confirm the valve noise sometimes with an instrumented audio test to determine if the unique "valve noise" is present. This would be the clear indicator warranting the valve servicing before the recommended interval. Along with that type of servicing they are also directed to perform additional inspections:
    1- CMP Pulse rate plate inspection
    2- Cylinder head warpage inspection
    3- Rocker arm and camshaft inspection
    4- Valve, spring, and stem inspection (replace if applicable)
    5- Valve seat reconditioning (if applicable)
    6- Chain and sprocket inspection

    Now, including the possible replacement of the 8 spark plugs, coolant and oil refill, you can tell this could amount to a big bill, eh? I don't have the actual labor/effort times at hand but it could take a good and well equipped mechanic a good part of the day to do all items in the checklist.

    On your last question:
    Sorry. For the foreseeable future, I find it more helpful and safe to remain professionally anonymous. Hope you do not mind.

    Cheers;

    MSantos

  7. #6
    MSantos, no need to tip your hand, I just appreciate the sterling tips!

    Yes, that list does look expensive, with most requiring cylinder head removal.

    As far as just getting the valve cover off, getting a wrench on the end of the drive shaft (at the wheel well), and cranking the engine through the 4 positions and inspection with feeler gauge (adjust only as needed), I found that took a lesuirely 2 hours at most, at least with our older Hondas, that was with a reasonably accessable valve cover.

    I've always made a point of getting a service manual, reasoning that it pays for itself with the first valve adjustment you do yourself. With this gen Civic Hybrid, the manual really glosses over the complexity. It says "remove the harness holder" (that runs along the top of of the valve cover). The main issue I found is that neither end of this harness has plugs, conduits just continue down the sides of the engine at both ends. The passenger end counduit is (maybe 2) relatively thin bundles, with additional fasteners down the side, connecting to the dip stick tube. These fasteners are easily freed, allowing the that end to be shifted out of the way. But at the other end there is one thick cable, disappearing into the air cleaner region. I did manage to get the air cleaner box out and was then able to access some bolts in behind it which I thought would facilitate shifting the harness. All of that made for an extra inch or two of movement, if that.

    That's where I threw in the towel. I really didn't relish trying to get at the valves, or get the cover off or on, with that harness hangin in the way all time. Anyway, more and more now, I'm finding it's much easier, and safer, to leave it to the pros.

  8. #7
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    Hi, Post to Mr. Santo. So

    Hi,
    Post to Mr. Santo.
    So what exactly are "noisey" engine valves??
    How can you tell??
    I can't compare to new as I've bought a 07 HCH.

    Thanks

  9. #8

    If I can try: Noisy valves

    If I can try:

    Noisy valves are loose valves, ie: when the clearance between the rocker arm tappet and the top of the valve stem is greater than specification.

    I finally did get down to the valves on our '06, here's my notes:

    km: 58370
    * Checked valve clearances. Existing clearances measured:
    intake1:.009"
    intake2:.008~9"
    intake3:.009"
    intake4:.008~9"
    exhaust1:.013"
    exhaust2:.011"
    exhaust3:.012"
    exhaust4:.011"
    ----
    Spec:
    Intake:.006"-.007"
    Exhaust:.009"-.011"
    ----
    * Set intakes to: .006"
    * Set exhausts to: .010"

    This seemed fairly typical to my experience with previous Honda's: after a few 10's of thousands of kilometers they were modestly out-of-spec on the loose side.

    This will be *safe*, ie: you won't be getting burnt valves, which could happen if clearance is too tight, not allowing the valve to shut properly, which in turn reduces proper heat tranfer to the block.

    But excessive clearance will reduce performance. I do know, the first time I ever set valve clearance I confused intake and exhaust side, and the results were noticeably rough running, so a few thou's does make a difference.

    Anyway, here's a thread regarding my experience with the 06 HCHII valve check:

    http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17946

  10. #9
    Guest

    Hello Mendel, Surfing the

    Hello Mendel,
    Surfing the internet I found your name very frequently.
    To my opinion you must be Mendel Leisk son of Herman and Corrie Leisk. Your mother and my mother where sisters. Is this correct? If so contact me on my e-mail address. Sorry for making contact to you via this a bit strange way.
    Greeting Rob

  11. #10
    Guest

    Well that sure was a big old

    Well that sure was a big old slap to the face! He just stated he wished to remain annonomous. Way to publicly identify him. It's because of people like you that many people begin to loath their relatives.

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