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  1. #1
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    Mar 2008
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    FEH (MMH) Defroster Operation

    I do not yet have my FEH (its on order) But as I have read thru tips and blogs I understand that operation of the climate controll on "Defrost" requires operation of the AC compressor thus it also requires operation of the ICE - and will it prevent the ICE from shutting off and going EV. I have one word for that: RAINX I live in Colorado and use this stuff all the time. There are two products ANTI-FOG for the inside of the windscreen and also normal RAINX for the outside .... Snow does not stick and brushes off, Water runs off faster than the wipers can even get there, and the Anti fog on the inside prevents vapor accumulation "fog" on the windshield...... with these products I seldom use defrost mode as I try to hypermile my existing (non-hybrid) vehicle as it also runs the compressor in defrost mode.
    Pretty low tech... But it works!!

    I would like to find a way to be able to run FEH air vents in the defrost mode without the compressor as even a simple fresh air flow can very often address interior moisture on the windshield - but i bet its a lot more complex that putting a relay & switch on the compressor clutch.... the engine management system must be very integrated.

  2. #2
    Junior Member
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    Oct 2006
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    Hi Cougar In temperatures

    Hi Cougar

    In temperatures below freezing, the PCM will not allow the compressor to operate and you can drive in EV running the defroster. The anti-fog sounds like the way to go anyway. When you turn the climate control to any position but OFF, the electric heater motor will circulate coolant from the radiator when in EV. This will heat up the cabin but also drop the coolant and head temperature. In cold weather, this will shorten EV time and in any weather use power to run the heater pump.

    The only time I run the climate control is for the cabin A/C in hot weather. I did a simple heater core by-pass so the A/C recirculates cool air longer in EV. By not having the hot coolant circulate in the climate control system ductwork, the air gets colder faster and last longer in EV.

    As far as a switch to control the compressor, I recommend against it. The HV battery has an AUG A/C that shares the A/C compressor. In temperatures above freezing, the HV battery needs to use the compressor to cool the battery during heavy charging conditions and hot weather. If your HV battery was damaged from overheating, Ford may void your warranty because of such a switch. Overheating codes and A/C malfunction codes are stored in the modules and can't be cleared by the SGII at this time.

    GaryG

  3. #3
    Junior Member
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    Mar 2008
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    hey Guru! (Gary) Thanks

    hey Guru! (Gary) Thanks for the reply. Is there not a valve that stops flow of heated water into the heater core during simple "vent" and also during AC modes ? if so, why did you have to put in a bypass... it sounds counter productive if there is heated water flowing thru the heater core at all times especially if the AC is on.

    Also, I am assuming that you can simply run the vents and fan - without heat or AC being selected

    my dealer just told me (I also called ford to verify) that my 2008 FEH order has been switched to 2009 model and that the wait should be 16 -20 weeks (not holding my breath) I am sure it will go up in price...SIGH I hope the federal incentives are still valid at that time !!!!

  4. #4
    Junior Member
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    Oct 2006
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    There is no valve to

    There is no valve to shut-off hot coolant from circulating through the heater core. A blend door is used to direct outside vented air, A/C outside and recir air and air through the heater core. This blend door allows you to adjust the temperature setting of the A/C and heater, but at its coldest setting air is still being heated. This is why I don't use the outside vent air to cool me down when outside air from the windows is cooler. Why mix warmer vent air with outside cooler air.

    Coolant is presently circulated when the engine is running by a mechanical belt driven water pump on the FEH/MMH. When the engine is running, coolant is constantly circulating though the heater core weather or not the climate control system is off. In EV, the electric heater pump is activated if the climate control system is set in any position but off in order for you to adjust the temperature control.

    Now that I've by-passed the heater core, the only way to adjust the temperature is with fan speed. If I choose to run the outside vent, the air is more cool now and I can increase fan speed if I need to. I do this when driving with a headwind where the windows down would decrease MPG. A tailwind allows adjusting the windows for the right airflow and has less of an effect on decreasing MPG. I prefer not to run the heater pump and the fan whenever possible to save energy. You can just run the vent fan without the A/C, but if you don't do a heater core by-pass the vented air will be warmer than outside air through the windows.

    BTW, Ford FEH Engineers have stated that even at highway speeds, you get better FE with the windows down than running the A/C.

    That's a long wait for the '09, but it was taking that long for the '08 FEH the pass few months. What State are you ordering from? The reason I ask is the GREEN STATES were able to order the '05 almost 6 months before the other States like here in Florida.

    GaryG

  5. #5
    Junior Member
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    Oct 2006
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    Hi Cougar My Wife and I

    Hi Cougar

    My Wife and I decided to order a new '09 FWD FEH this weekend if the '08 model are finished. Today, my broker contacted his Ford Dealership fleet manager to see if I could order the '09. The huge Miami dealership said I could not order an '09 as of this date. My broker said he would stay on top of the first available time I could order the '09. My broker got me one of the first '05's delivered in Florida and I expect he work hard on getting me a fully loaded '09 ASAP.

    My fully loaded '05 FWD FEH will go on sale as soon as I have confirmation of a '09 FWD FEH order if anyone is interested.

    Any Ford Executive that would like to see an on going lifetime mileage log documentation of the '09 FWD FEH by me, I'm willing to make a deal. I was the first place Hybridfest MPG Challenge winner with over 60mpg in the '05 FWD FEH last year.

    GaryG

  6. #6
    Junior Member
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    Feb 2008
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    Why am I not surprised that

    Why am I not surprised that you are getting an 09 FEH!

    I am curious as to what you have learned about what FE directed software changes may accompany the new engine/battery combination in the 09.

    Best of Luck,
    John Dixson

  7. #7
    Junior Member
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    Oct 2006
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    Hi John I've been burning

    Hi John

    I've been burning the midnight oil reading new Ford patents, Ford engineer papers and just anything I can find including the new "Energy Saver" Michelin tires. Ford has had the patent on the roll over protection with a regen system for a long time now, finally the '09 will be equipped.

    All I've read is the programming between EV and the gas engine has been improved over the '08 which is far better than my '05 FEH. The new 2.5L will have an all new torque curve with more HP at lower RPM's, so I'm excited about that. Not that I need more HP, but it's there in a more FE manner than the 2.3L design. Also, I like the new FE variable intake valve timing Ford has improved over Honda's system.

    The HV battery may have some changes if Ford has adapted some of their newer patents, but I don't know for sure.

    A Ford Hybrid Engineer also stated he was waiting to get his new "09 FEH, so the new changes must be worth the wait. At any rate, I don't see Ford moving backwards in the FE market of the FEH/MMH. After driving your '08, more than likely I will maintain a lifetime average of 50mpg in an '09 giving our conditions here in So. Florida. It would be nice if we had some rolling hills though.

    For those of you here who want to look at the most recent to some of the first patents by Ford, here is the link I use:
    http://www.freepatentsonline.com/res...=on&sort=chron

    GaryG


  8. #8
    Junior Member
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    Mar 2008
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    Hey Gary, I am in Colorado.

    Hey Gary,

    I am in Colorado. When I went in to order my FEH in Feb. the dealer told me that there was no "available" 2008 model inventory anywhere in the US Dealer network, or on Ford staging lots.

    They were unsure at that point if an order would be built as a 2008 model or a 2009 - as the factory was approaching model year changover shutdown/cutover (if not already doing it)

    Here is where it gets dicey, and I am still not totally convinced as to what is going on. following a couple of weeks they called me and told me that they were switching my order to a 2009, as a 2008 was no longer an option. I also called Ford customer service direct and they show that I do have a FEH on order, but he could not provide me any real data as to what-or-when.

    I wish i could find some info as to what is actually happening at the Factory - I believe they have already switched production of the F150 made there to the 2009 models but BUT I am unsure on the FEH MMH MTH

    I am expecting changes to my costs and options for the 2009 but I have not been contacted yet on this.

    Does anyone have a Bat-Phone (direct line?) to Ford that would provide better info?

    Cheers.... Cougar.

  9. #9
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    Hi Cougar I don't have a

    Hi Cougar

    I don't have a Bat-Phone or a connection with Ford to get new information directly. Ford releases this kind of information when and where they want too. No one from Ford would risk their job giving information out before planned releases. This is one reason I go to the patents for a lot of new information about systems.

    My broker will make two sales as soon as he can get a new '09 ordered for me and he deals with Fleet Sales at the dealerships. I'm hoping the new '09 Prius will make it to the lots before the '09 FEH can be ordered because both vehicles have made big improvements over the '08 models. The newer Prius may be able to go EV at 62mph and the newer FEH/MMH may have a higher EV speed than the present 40mph. Going EV in a coast at higher speeds will increase my MPG at higher speeds.

    GaryG

  10. #10
    Junior Member
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    Mar 2008
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    Hey Cougar: I really don't

    Hey Cougar:

    I really don't know how important it is for you to get a 2008, I myself am waiting for the 2009 models, there are just too many improvments for me to get a 2008.

    But there are two Mercury Mariner Hybrids available . One in East Hartford, Connecticut, I have not seen this one, but is fully loaded except for the accessories (remote start, lumination and side steps, but has all the other high end options. There is another in West Springfield, Mass.

    If you go to the Mercury website and check out the inventory you will see them. I think the one in West Springfield, I actually saw, which had leather without heat. Thats why I did not get it.

    My 2 Cents.

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