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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by geisemann View Post
    I have had much better luck with American cars in respect with them lasting longer and being safer and spending a lot less for body repairs.

    I recently was in an auto accident with my ford explorer and it hit a Toyota camery.

    The Toyota camery crumbled and was totaled and my ford didnít have really too much other than a scratch.

    If you buy a Toyota remember one thing itís a disposable car. If you get in any type of accident small or large the car will be totaled.

    I rented a Prius recently and the metal was so cheap on it I could push the hood down with my hand.

    I am sorry the Prius is very anti-American. It makes me sick to see our country by so many foreign products.

    Prius people from what I have seen leave there lights on in there homes and donít even by compact fluorescents.

    You would be much better off keeping your old SAFE car. Investing in solar power, wind power and other taking public transportation and working on your leaks in your house to safe your heating bill.

    A CA Exec recently was pulled over going 100MPH in his prius and this is terrible, the car does not save you a cent at this speed on top of this if you wreck you will be dead in a second.

    My money will go towards American owned companies that make efficient vehicles.

    My life is important and if I am dead the extra air quality wonít help me 6 feet under.

    From my research Toyota customers are extremely upset with the Lexus SUV hybrid. Toyota lied about the fuel mileage.

    They also lied about the Prius.

    Basically I really feel the Prius is a PR stunt and people were lied too. They large trucks Toyota sells are in the same showrooms that guzzle gas and they are unsafe as well

    The new Ford Trucks are all 5 stars the Toyota could not even get 4 and on top of that JD power just rated

    Buick better than Lexus and Lexus is Toyotas best brand.

    Ford also beat Toyota in quality

    So again you are buying foreign because itís foreign and itís really anti-American.

    Look at the JD ratings they will show you that American cars are really better!

    Look at quality ratings overall for the past 5-10 years and I think you will see a pattern. Namely, Toyota, Lexus, Honda, etc on top. Yes, the landscape is evening out over time, but domestic automakers still have a ways to go to catch Japanese brands on a consistent basis.

    As for Toyota and other Japanese autos being unsafe disposal cars, this is simply laughable. Go look at the safety ratings and tell me what you find. If you are going to make these ridiculous assertions then you need to back them up with real data....not your hood push-down test (for the record, if you think the material in that hood is what keeps you safe, then I understand why you have so little faith in Japanese safety....but what do you think of Saturn's plastic sidepanels?).

    For the record, I want to buy an American vehicle, but there is very little available that I am interested in. I don't want a 5000lb, 15mpg gas guzzling behemoth. The Ford Edge is interesting, but I want better gas mileage. Saturn Outlook is interesting, but way too big and needs to get MUCH better gas mileage to be seriously considered. The Saturn Vue is also interesting, but you get very little interior space for that size vehicle. FEH is a little too truck like for my needs, but is definitely a realistic option.

    geise, I am curious, should Japanese consumers buy American cars? If so....why? What about Europeans....should they buy American cars? Or should Japanese consumers buy only Japanese cars, American consumers buy only American cars, Europeans buy only Europeans cars, etc?

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  3. #22
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    I want to get the best that my greenbacks can offer...

    Geise,
    Consumers buy things that maximize their marginal benefit, regardless of who made it.

    You said that American branded vehicles are better than Japenese ones just because of ONE JDPowers survey. It takes years of consistency to build up the consumer confidence to change consumer mindset on a certain product. Most consumers look for quality with a proven track record... and historically, Toyota and Honda has been on that path for quite a while now. It's not about buying American or not, it's about buying things that do not break, do not have high cost in the long run, do bring up future problems! Currently, the Japanese branded ones are doing it right. If their American counterparts can do that consistently, consumers would definately consider them. The same goes for the European branded ones too.

    Who makes it does not matter, it is what the consumer gets back for what they paid is!

  4. #23
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    Toyota Is Junk

    No and also I have owned toyotas and they fall apart, have not done well in accidents, and tend to have catastrophic failures when things do break.

    Lets see in a recient survey the new Camery got a very poor rating becaues of large transmission problems and things falling apart.

    http://autos.yahoo.com/2007_toyota_camry/
    The only thing Green about Toyota is US money going to Japan.

    If people would buy more American maybe the cars would also start getting even better and they are quite excellent now.

    This relates to CA anti-american people. They if they could buy foreign software they would. At least Apple and Microsoft have the advantage now but wait. China is moving in to even copy the I phone.

    I own my own American engineering company and I cant tell you the amount of foreign companies that try to steal my designs.

    People need to consider the impact of there decision to buy foreign goods. Toys, Cars, Dog food even.

    Consumer reports or some call Consumer distorts have had historically large contributions from Toyota. They are no-profit but they take large contributions.

    This affects in how they rate cars. How can they rate a car poorly if they get a large donation from this company.

    I have owned many cars they rated excellent fail quite a lot and owned many cars they rated poorly be the best cars I have owned.

    To make blanket statements is not a way to be an educated consumer.

    My point is wake up look at the hard facts and dont just get a car because its in style. Run the numbers and think hard about your safety.

  5. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by geisemann View Post
    ....I have owned toyotas...
    ....I rented a Prius recently .....
    Really????????

  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by geisemann View Post
    ...
    To make blanket statements is not a way to be an educated consumer.
    ...
    So true !!!!

    And since you have yet to produce any links or verifiable data backing up your blunt and subjective allegations you expect to be seen as educated?
    I sincerely hope not !!!

    Please read your own words carefully to see what I mean.



    I'll tell you what: Give us some government, or other professional or academic consumer oriented data (links and reports) that proves that Toyota and Honda consistently produce inferior and unsafe products to any US manufacturer and we promise you will not be blamed for trolling these forums.


    Cheers;

    MSantos

  7. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by geisemann View Post
    No and also I have owned toyotas and they fall apart, have not done well in accidents, and tend to have catastrophic failures when things do break.

    Lets see in a recient survey the new Camery got a very poor rating becaues of large transmission problems and things falling apart.

    http://autos.yahoo.com/2007_toyota_camry/
    The only thing Green about Toyota is US money going to Japan.

    If people would buy more American maybe the cars would also start getting even better and they are quite excellent now.

    This relates to CA anti-american people. They if they could buy foreign software they would. At least Apple and Microsoft have the advantage now but wait. China is moving in to even copy the I phone.

    I own my own American engineering company and I cant tell you the amount of foreign companies that try to steal my designs.

    People need to consider the impact of there decision to buy foreign goods. Toys, Cars, Dog food even.

    Consumer reports or some call Consumer distorts have had historically large contributions from Toyota. They are no-profit but they take large contributions.

    This affects in how they rate cars. How can they rate a car poorly if they get a large donation from this company.

    I have owned many cars they rated excellent fail quite a lot and owned many cars they rated poorly be the best cars I have owned.

    To make blanket statements is not a way to be an educated consumer.

    My point is wake up look at the hard facts and dont just get a car because its in style. Run the numbers and think hard about your safety.

    Your link is nothing more than a collection of browsee opinions. Hardly scientific.

    Your accusation about Consumer Reports is both unsubstantiated and convenient. Surely you know that they will disagree with your assumptions, which means that any attempt to categorically dismiss all of their data is very convenient.

    But I'll tell you what....how about you provide some sort of data to back up your claims. Anything. Or should we just take your word on it that Priuses are not safe because their hood material is thin?

    Finally, I have to say that your quote below is so ironic it is simply beautiful

    "To make blanket statements is not a way to be an educated consumer.

    My point is wake up look at the hard facts and dont just get a car because its in style."

    You have done nothing but make blanket unsubstantiated comments about Japanese cars and hybrids in particular. Also, you have yet to comment on why hybrids are to be criticized for being "in style", but gas hogging SUV's that were the life blood of Detroit for the last decade get a free pass.

    Perhaps you should take your own advice.

    Happy trolling.

  8. #27
    Guest

    Toyota is very anti American

    Toyota is very anti American and the only thing green about Toyota is American Money going to Japan.

    Its not where the cars are made its where the projits come from. The high end jobs in engineering and finance are all lost and you are making your sons and daughters not have a future.

    Recently a toytoa exec said this and thats why I will NEVER buy a Toyota.

    "January 25th, 2008 at 11:32 am

    I am on a JAL plane now and will never want to return the Used States of Ameritrash, and will work very hard to defeat Detroit, you guys may not know that our Japanese cars are also defeating GM in china now, Toyota and Honda are much more profitable per vehicle in China that GM. One time Ford complained that Toyota withhold technique to them, but Toyota and their affiliates did sell things to the USA, for only one reason, to avoid backlash. GM/Ford are shameless, you may not know this: When toyota wanted to learn to Ford in 1955, Ford was so arrogant, and now Ford is begging us to teach them, what a crappy company

  9. #28
    Guest

    Was a loyal GM guy born from

    Was a loyal GM guy born from a loyal Pontiac father...

    Owned
    1971 GM pickup
    1978 Malibu
    1978 Jeep Honcho (AMC used GM parts OK)
    1981 Grand Prix
    1984 Sunbird Turbo
    1990 Isuzu Trooper (wifes vehicle and choice)
    1992 GMC Pickup
    1994 Pontiac Bonneville SSEI
    1997 Suburban
    2003 Yukon

    I am a somewhat experienced Domestic vehicle owner who has noticed a decline in quality over the years. OH ya, there have been an addition of more bells and whistles, but I have consitently been experiencing more breakdowns every year.

    Here is a list of what is wrong with my 2003 Yukon:

    - weird valve noise on startup (oil is fresh and full)
    - bearing on A/C compressor squeals non-stop
    - steering (front diff) clunks on tight slow cornering (scary)
    - spongy brakes that seems to move left to right when stopping
    - chirp/ rubbing noise from steering column when wheel is turned
    - annoying front end vibrations at highway speeds (GM says all is well with front end)

    I can overlook the minor things usually but the clunking diff/ axle worries me. GM say they can't diagnose it and requested changing the front diff fluids (which I did).
    It clunks LOUDLY every time I turn (5mph)
    Squeaking chirping steering column - GM recommended replacing one of the steering hoses (for $175) which I did. It did not fix the problem.
    A/C problem quoted about $580 plus labor.

    Spongy brakes are a problem on this vehicle according to other forums.

    Bottom line. My Pontiac father bought a 2003 Honda Accord recently (he is a miser and wanted better gas mileage). He regularly brags about his 46 mpg on the12 hour drive to my house to visit the grandkids. 1 repair so far on radio ($150) His 2000 GM 3/4 ton pickup sits in the garage with 40,000 miles on it only used when they want the reliability of 4x4 on snowy trips.

    My next vehicle purchase will likely be a Toyota Prius as gas approaches $4.30 per gallon here in Canada. Once GM decides to smarten up and build high mileage (MPG) vehicles I may return. I just calculated a Prius will save me $2500 next year on fuel alone. This will pay for the beater pickup truck I need for occasional 'truck only' utility trips.

    OH ya, address the quality issues as well GM. Or are you dumping all of us nice N. Americans for the fledgling Chinese market......?


  10. #29

    geissman, You must be 150

    geissman,
    You must be 150 years old and owned 50 cars. Did you hit the prius with your ford pick up to make apoint? Read consummerreport.org. if you want to know which cars do best. prius is way up there!

    I just purchased a prius and it may not be the best deal, i traded in my Honda accord which got about 30 MPG, my prious is getting 60 MPG.

    If everyone in the Us purchased a car which averaged over 30 MPG, we could tell the arabs, and the oil baraos in this administration to stick their oil wher the sun don't shine and stop spilling our soldiers blood for OPEC and Big Oilo profits. Check into how many US cars average 30 MPG.

    US car makers are 10 years behind in their technology, they deserve the state they are in. PS - Toyota has matched GM last year in total vehicle sales


  11. #30
    Guest

    We all know that Consumer

    We all know that Consumer Reports is paid by Toyota.


    There was a article published how they get donations and heavy ones from Toyota.

    From the poor ratings they gave American cars you would have to have a problem every week.

    I had one of the cars they rated poor and never had an issue with the car. Thats when I stopped my subscription .

    Recently they have been getting flack about the contributions from Toyota and other jap car companies so they have had to rate a few American cars well but it will go back to who gives them more money how well they rate a companies cars.

    I have looked up better sources on the internet including
    Yahoo autos.
    G

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