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Thread: Exchangeable batteries
08-14-2004 09:22 PM #1
It seems no one in the world gives this concept more then a chuckle, but what the heck. This is still the time to be open to all options. The types of hybrids are almost endless and although the Prius my be in the lead, it is clearly not the end of the technology. So it seems a good idea to keep open one more possibility for the sake of discussion.
Wile the likelihood of this happening is less then slim, the problems it would solve are overwhelming. Gone is the worry about range. Gone is the issue over long charging times. And if supported on a large scale in a system where all batteries are only rented, gone also would be the fear of eventual battery replacement
A battery exchange system can only function if it is both designed into the vehicle and supported by an external, mechanical battery changing device. This can’t be done on any scale without full support of manufacturers but it is possible to demonstrate on a single vehicle. I maintain that a pure BEV race car equipped with a fast change battery could beet the pants off of the best gas opponents in both speed and endurance. Were this to happen, it would open eyes to the ability of the BEV, electric drive in general and to the option of battery exchange. Worth a thought?
08-15-2004 12:32 AM #2
Interesting. If there were enough commonallity amoung the battery packs, I think it could work. If every manufacturer has a different design and the design changes every year, the complexity would get to you. Plus, if they were common and produced in large quantities, the cost to manufacture them would come down dramatically.
One of the problems in dealing with refurbished/remanufactured components is that it can cost as much to handle and rebuild an old component as it costs to build a new one (thinking in terms of Starters, Alternators, etc.) As NiMH batterys become more prevalent, they will come down in price. A battery pack that costs the manufacturer $2,500 today may cost less than a third of that in a few years as the manufacturing technology progresses.
Everyone in the "Battery Rental Exchange" business will want a cut of the profit. If there are too many steps in the process, the price may approach the cost of a new battery pack. I think it is a worthy idea, but the business plan will have to allow for just a few handlers, high volume and simplified stocking (few part numbers).
A lot of insight as to the failure frequency and modes would be required to put such a plan out there.
08-15-2004 05:58 AM #3
Thanks for the input. The idea is far from simple or easy. The point is to keep thinking and keep options in the air. The hydrogen fuel cell vehicle is talked about as a done deal. But in reality, the technology is more complicated then a battery exchange scheme. Trying to keep the thing apples and apples.
The batteries size and shape need not be too big a deal. Obviously as a business proposition it is a can of worms. But a standard external size and shape could be adopted and the guts inside that size and shape could still vary. Also, multiple packages could be used as in a flashlight or radio.
These batteries would need to be very smart. They would need to keep a full record of their lifespan and usage. A system would need to be adopted that somehow covered all costs of the batteries recharging and eventual recycling. All possibly too much of a hurdle to spend a lot of energy on the subject but worth keeping an eye on.
The racing idea is far easier to implement. Other then gobs of money, I see no reason why this could not be done with existing equipment and technology. All the issues of public use and consistent battery size would be gone. All that would be needed is a very fast and reliable BEV and an equally fast battery swapping mechanism. Don’t know if it would be allowed to compete against gas guzzlers as it would have several unfair advantages. Do think it would go a long way to putting the BEV in the public eye and in a very good light, It would also generate some imaginative thinking.
08-27-2004 11:18 PM #4
Saw my first functioning, battery swapping EV yesterday. Cheap mass production model too. Must be thousands sold.
Too bad it was a mini scooter at Costco. And they are asking you to spring for the second battery.
But the concept is just too simple. Swap out that spent battery, slap in the fresh one and you’re off to scooter nirvana.
08-28-2004 12:24 AM #5
There you go - wonder what it would take to get 330 volts? It would seem that if you park in the sunlight, a solar panel would be helpful to maintain charge in the battery pack. Perhaps a few milliamps wouldn't do much for a 330 volt system???
08-29-2004 07:53 AM #6
actually the batteries are using standard sizes.
at work, i was reviewing batteries for an application we were designing. i spoke with several battery manufacturers, and they all said these big "custom" cases we see are actually composed of standard small cell batteries like what we're used to seeing.
they are assembled in series &/or paralle as needed to meet the overall power consumption requirements.
09-18-2007 08:43 AM #7
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
Hello there, I have here an article which I lifted from the net which tells about the capacity of a hybrid car battery...Hope this might help...
LiMnO2 hybrid battery cells deliver longer life, higher capacity
By Paul O'Shea
Courtesy of eeProductCenter
(08/23/2007 3:34 PM EDT)
Fair Lawn, N.J. — Maxell Corporation of America has introduced its next-generation of lithium manganese dioxide (LiMnO2) cylindrical hybrid battery cells with longer life and higher capacity for automatic meter readers, security devices and RF applications. These advanced hybrid cells will operate for more than 10 years and offer about nine percent higher capacity compared to similar cells currently available.
The CR17450 and CR17335 cells, designed to industry standard sizes, are laser sealed and exhibit a low self-discharge making them suitable for long-term extended life applications of 10+ years. The wide operational temperature range of -40° to +80°C with an improved heatproof temperature of +90°C to 100° C and internal minute short-circuit prevention are said to make these cells intrinsically safe.
The CR17450 offers a typical capacity of 2600 mAh, while the CR17335 provides a typical capacity of 1750 mAh. The cells offer a voltage rating of 3.0 volts and feature a stable sloping discharge curve at various depths of discharge, allowing for accurate prediction of end of life.
The CR17450 measures 17 mm in diameter and 45 mm in length and weighs 22g. The CR17335 also has a diameter of 17 mm with a 33.5-mm length and weighs 16g.
The CR17450 and CR17335 cells will be displayed for the first time at the AMRA 2007 (Automatic Meter Reader Association) show in Reno, Nev., October 1-3, 2007. Maxell will also attend the AISI Security Show in Las Vegas, Nev., September 24-26.
As a hybrid car owner, I am well satisfied with its performance as well as with its auto parts like my honda decals and of course, its battery and its other accessories...
Pricing: Samples are priced in the $5.00 range with a delivery of 60 to 90 days.
Product information: CR17450 and CR17335
Maxell Corporation of America, www.maxell.com
09-19-2007 04:18 AM #8
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
The idea has quite a high likelyhood of happening...but not till the first electric vehicles make the aftermarket supportable. Some key things to keep in mind:
1) Since batteries do wear out, the automotive makers have a financial incentive to shift the responsibility to the driver/battery buyer. It would be like a tire or 12V battery. (Warranty does not cover these after a short time.)
2) Nothing happens till a government standard for safety is established. Until this happens, the auto makers must provide the safety levels for the batteries that prevent third party suppliers having to meet one standard.
3) Technically, having flexible DC/DC converters for each battery pack would make interchangability and different compatability easily managed. (i.e. This is not a technology problem in reality)
4) Batteries will always have a different manufacturing flow than autos. This will naturally create seperate niches for technology.
Good idea--just too early.