+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    0

    Honda Drops The Accord Hybrid Amid Soft Sales.

    Honda has stated that it will continue to make gas and electric models of its popular Civic sedans, but will stop offering its Hybrid Accord with the launch of the new model expected to go on sale later this year.

    The Accord Hybrid which is only sold in North America has sold only 25,000 units since going on sale in 2004 and sold just 6,100units last year.

    The Toyota Prius Hybrid is still the market leader, with over 729,800 units being sold since its introduction in December 1997.


    http://hybrid-cars.megawebpages.com

  2. #2
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    0

    Accord Hybrid

    It is really unfortunate that this model is being dropped. We've loved the reliability and milleage. The sound module has been a major problem - mostly because Honda did not know what was wrong! Our computer son was the one who identified the sound module causing the moise - Honda just replaced the entire sound system and for the first time ever (though it's only been a problem for the last 6 months) all extra noise is gone.
    Now we love it more then ever!!!! 44 mph in warmer eather. 38 mpg in winter weather.

  3. #3
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    0
    With the Accord Hybrid, Honda did something it rarely does; shoot itself in the foot! The mistake was to mate the hybrid IMA system with the V6 while they sold a 4 cyl. model. The difference in mpg between the hybrid and 4-banger was small, while the difference in price was huge. Result -- few people bought the hybrid.

  4. #4
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by 1stpik View Post
    With the Accord Hybrid, Honda did something it rarely does; shoot itself in the foot! The mistake was to mate the hybrid IMA system with the V6 while they sold a 4 cyl. model. The difference in mpg between the hybrid and 4-banger was small, while the difference in price was huge. Result -- few people bought the hybrid.
    Which is probably why they're planning on a diesel model to replace the outgoing hybrid model - if it's anything like the European diesel Accord it will probably beat the gasoline 4-banger model in efficency, while coming close to the V6 model in performance...

  5. #5
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    0

    Honda's Mistakes

    Honda made two mistakes with the Accord Hybrid.

    First they needed to develop the four cylinder as the Accord Hybrid. The people who are going to buy the most hybrids are interested in fuel economy but they are not willing to sacrifice their acceleration to get it. The solution to that problem is either a 2.3,2.4 or 2.5 liter four cylinder as in the Camry hybrid or a 1.8, 1.9 or 2.0 liter turbo motor like the one that is supposed to go into the new Prius.

    Second, if they were going to develop a hybrid with improved acceleration and only marginally better fuel economy than a four cylinder Accord, and especially if they are going to charge the same as a Mercedes C class, they had better fit it with stiffer shock absorbers and springs, stickier tires and call it an Acura. Not too many people are willing to buy an Accord when they could have had a Mercedes, Acuras are another matter.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by dfschim View Post
    ... they are not willing to sacrifice their acceleration to get it.
    With the electric drivetrain, one shouldn't have to sacrifice much economy to get great acceleration. They just need to put a higher torque rated electric motor. This won't add more than a few pounds of weight and almost no additional cost. But the auto industry refuses to risk obsoleting their performance cars with big engines.
    Just wait for the Tesla!

  7. #7
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    0
    The Tesla lists for 98,000. If powerful electric motors were so cheap then they would be able to sell it for 25,000. At 25,000 it would be revolutionary. At 98,000 it is an interesting science experiment. I will believe that high torque motors can be done cheaply when I see them put in a reasonably priced car. A Camry Hybrid provides 0-60 in 8 seconds which was sports car acceleration in the 1980's. If it had a decent sized trunk rather than a 10 cubic foot bread box the sales would be much higher than they are. If a Prius had the 1.8 turbo or the 2.4 from the Camry it would provide better acceleration like the Camry and have a somewhat decent sized 14.4 cubic foot hatchback, so it would sell better. I doubt that the car companies are intentionally holding out on us. They would love to crush the competition with high mileage powerful cars if they could be made cheaply and reliably. That no one is putting a powerful electric motor like that in their cars now means that it is not yet reliable and/or economical technology.

  8. #8
    It's the batteries that are expensive today, not the motors. The Tesla motor is a little tiny thing about the size of a breadbox.
    You probably don't think the car companies would force you to give back the best car you had ever driven and then take it out to the desert and crush it either - would you.
    You need to read a bit more about Tesla's business plan before you jump too quickly to pass judgement. See http://www.teslamotors.com/blog2/?p=8 for more info.

  9. #9
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    0

    Tesla's plan

    I wish Tesla well in their business plan and I hope they can succeed. The batteries they are looking at are the same ones that Toyota has reconsidered putting in their next Prius because they are not yet ready for prime time. GM is banking on a new type of battery that has not yet been properly tested. It does not matter whether it is the batteries required to run a powerful electric motor or the motor itself that is costly, the point is that the motor system required is too costly. Then there is the problem of space. It is easy to have an electric 2 seater like the EV1 or Tesla, no one expects more than 5 cubic feet of storage space in these cars. Where will the room for 5 people and 15-20 cubic feet of storage space come from with all those batteries in the car?

    Tesla's computations for power plant emissions are disingenuous at best. The standard power plant in the US is an old coal fired plant perhaps with a substandard scrubber system on the smokestacks if we are lucky, not a new natural gas plant. The least of our worries for emissions from that coal plant is CO2. Run an electric car from that power source and it does worse than a Diesel car for air pollution. That also circumvents California's clean air standards, because the electric companies simply buy power from out of state. I would be very happy if we stopped burning petroleum in power plants, put strict emission controls on fixed sources where they belong, the scrubbers on the smokestacks of all coal and natural gas plants, and if the self styled "environmentalists" would get out of the way and allow the construction of new safe hydroelectric dams and nuclear power plants. But I am not going to hold my breath until those things happen. Until that time a better option is a hybrid car, and apparently the lithium ion batteries required for a powerful electric motor to run in that hybrid are not even ready for use, let alone economical enough for application to a mass market compact or midsized sedan. I just think we should concentrate on the low hanging fruit of encouraging automakers to spread presently achievable hybrid technology to vehicles that make sense. A good example of this is taking the hybrid drive system from the Ford Escape SUV, removing it from the overweight, over height, aerodynamically poor SUV and installing it in a Fusion sedan. Once every car maker has a mainstream hybrid sedan, then look for improvements in battery technology. Then finally if we can change the power system in the US, at that point in time in the distant future an all electric car will make sense.

  10. #10
    dfschim,
    I appreciate your focus on the big picture, however, the increased efficiency of the electric drivetrain on a pure electric such as the Tesla or even a Plug-in Electric Vehicle that can run a few miles on pure electric power offsets the bad effects from coal generators.
    This was recently reproved by EPRI in:
    http://www.epri-reports.org/PHEV-ExecSum-vol1.pdf
    Which says that "the PHEV20 produces approximately the same GHG emissions as an HEV if powered by electricity from coal-fired power plants that do not capture CO2 . . . "
    With the national average electric mix of only 50% coal and the future moving away from coal, this means EV's are better NOW and will get even better with time!
    Feel free to look at the report to see the details which make the math work out in favor of the EV over the gasoline-only hybrid.
    note: a PHEV20 is a plug-in hybrid that can go 20 miles on battery alone. As the battery range increases, the efficiency and cleanliness also increases!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts