Maybe buying Civic Hybrid - couple of questions first
Created May 2, 2008, at 6:31 pm by octane
First, thanks for all of the great info in this forum.
I’m thinking of replacing my wife’s car with a new Civic Hybrid, and have a couple of questions. She takes and picks up the kiddos from school and ends up spending ~ an hour a day idling in the ‘car riders’ lines. In good weather she’ll put the windows down, but in NW Louisiana this is not often. So, I’m interested in maximizing the time the accessories (air conditioning) is running off the battery. I understand that the gas engine shuts off when not needed – like at a stoplight. But what happens after an extended period of time, maybe 20 minutes of no-movement time? Would she have to sit with her foot on the brake… or, can she put the car in park and have the A/C run from the battery? Please let me know if I am missing something here.
Thanks
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From what you are describing, Prius seems to be a better choice if you are ready for a hybrid. HCHII really kicks ass when she can get out on the highway and run for a stretch. If you are sitting in the carpool lane, moving up 10 feet at a time, the stop-start on HCHII will not stop the engine.
I think an HCHII would not do much better than a regular old Civic (great damn car) in your wife's bus driver duties. The Honda Fit is another good choice for what you describe. But if you are enlightened enough to visit us here at hybridcars.com you know you gotta have a hybrid.
Hi Octane:
The Civic Hybrid is the only hybrid vehicle that actually uses a "hybrid" AC compressor. That means that it can run off the traction battery, the gas engine accessories belt or both.
Yes, she put the car in park and the automatic climate control system will keep everyone cool.
Sitting with the vehicle on in traffic will decimate your battery charge in a hurry. It is also not much better in the Prius either. But I agree with UKTiger that if you are going to drive in stop and go the Prius is better - hands down. But if stopping more than driving then it still depends on how long the stops are because even the Prius with its "deeper" pack will turn the gas engine back on to charge the pack back up. Such is life.
Despite the inevitability of the gas engine starting at a long stop either car will give you better mileage and less emissions than any other car you can buy.
Cheers;
MSantos
Thanks folks for the quick responses. One more quick question... is there an aftermarket modification to allow charging of the big battery from a wall changer (plug-in)? I ask because most of my wife's driving is with very little braking which, it seems, not allow for the battery much opporunity to charge.
Thanks again
At the moment you're unlikely to find such a mod for either the Civic Hybrid or Prius... and if you ever did find one, the voiding of the OEM warranty is the main obstacle for you to factor in. Sorry.
MSantos
Spending an hour a day idling is bad news imho, for any car, and the environment, and kids in the vicinity. I'd say shut it down and crack or roll down the windows, as *soon* as you don't need to go anywhere. The auto-stop is meant for short intervals at red lights.
Regarding your wife doing very little braking, I don't know why but that has me smiling. I can just picture her blowing through red lights with sirens in tow. Seriously, I can't see any sort of normal driving situation impacting the charge state. Any time you take your foot off the gas the electric motor immediately turns into a generator, putting a slight load on the engine reducing braking effort and charging the battery. And no, I don't think there's any sort of plug-in charge system. It's not designed for that.
My wife does most of the driving with our '06, round town, multiple short trips daily, it works out fine.
Hymotion (http://www.a123systems.com/hymotion) now offers a kit to add batteries and a plug to a Prius. It isn't cheap but would allow longer airconditioner use while idling in traffic. For slow driving (under 35 mph), you can run on pure electric for several miles if you've charged the battery by plugging in.
I'm also thinking about purchasing an 06 HCH -- and am wondering if in short stops (like in a drive thru McD's) whether the AC condenser comes on and off all the time like it does on my 4 cyclinder Acura TSX?
I put about 90K miles a year on my vehicle and am looking forward to some gas $ savings in the future.
(I hope the Honda is a long-term vehicle and will hold up)
The second generation HCH will run the AC on electric provided that you have the climate control on AUTO and you set a reasonable temperature value.
This means you have to make smart use of the car's Climate Control features. For example, you set the AC temp at 87 or more at first then slowly (every 2-5 minutes) lower the value one degree at a time until you are comfortable. If you do this the AC will always run on electric and the gas engine will stop when it should. Set it too low at first and the gas engine will powering the AC compressor as well - which frankly makes the AC behave like that of any other car - really, this is something you DO NOT want.
Cheers;
MSantos
Thanks, MSantos...
I also want to ask that, since I put so many miles on my vehicle, whether or not you have heard any long-term reports of how the car is holding up. I hate rattles, by the way, and am wondering how the Civic does in that department as well as mechanically.
Also, since it doesn't have traction control, is it wise to use snow tires for the winter months? And which is in your opinion the best tire to use?
Thanks
Many 2006 models have been checking in with 130,000+ miles on their odometers with no problems to report. Some members of the HCH-II community actually own some of these higher mileage vehicles.
Given time and driving conditions as well as climate extremes, rattles affect any vehicle sooner or later. Let us also not forget that the Civic is also a compact and not a luxury model. With that said, my 2006 is still as solid and rattle free as it was on day one. When it is very cold (-30 to -40) you may hear some trim noises as expected on courser roads. It all goes away once the car interior warms up.
I personally prefer Michelin X-ICE tires as my winter rubber for all my cars. To operate the HCH-II in snow with its OEM tires is to ask for trouble so yes, I vigorously recommend snow tires for the winter months.
To be truly effective, traction control has to be well implemented otherwise it can be more of a problem than an benefit (example: Toyota Prius). TC and VSC are offered in the HCH-2 sold in other parts of the world but not in North America.
Cheers;
MSantos
Welp, I did it. Traded in my Acura TSX for a Civic Hybrid -- should pick it up in a day or so.
I am wondering, in a nutshell, what should I do to "break in" the engine properly??
Be specific .... I'm new to this hybrid stuff.
Thanks~~~~
First of all, Congratulations !!
I often suggest that people take in easy in the braking and acceleration department for the first 2000 miles. Dealers will recommend docile driving for the first 600 miles or so.
Personally, I take it easy for the duration of the first oil change which can last anywhere from 7000 and 11,000 miles.
Second:
Welcome to the HCH-II club. The next step is to visit us at www.cleanmpg.com and introduce yourself. Once there you'll literally be overwhelmed with all the details you'll ever need about your new HCH.
Cheers;
MSantos
Couple of things I can think of, not specific to the break-in, but specific to the Hybrid:
1. Set your dash display so that the upper left corner shows your realtime mileage constantly (as opposed to temperature).
2. Set your center odomenter display to show your current mileage since last resetting the trip meter, and reset that at each tank full.
These two bits of information will really help you understand and improve your mileage.
Regarding break-in, all I can think of the usual Honda instructions. One being: yes, drive moderately (especially on cold engine), but also atempt to put the engine through a variety of load conditions. I guess *anything* other than a road trip across the prairies would accomplish this.
Also, stick to the Maintenance Minder schedule, especially don't jump the gun on the first oil change. Some dealers tend to push accelerated schedules, and additional oil filter changes, but it's not needed.
MSantos - thanks for all the great info - wish you would write a book on the HCH.
To clarify one point: does the AC need to be in AUTO to be able to enter the electric-only mode, or is it possible in AC ON? I have an '08 HCH.
I am primarily interested in being able to get auto idle stop with the AC on. I have been able to get it sometimes even with ambient temps over 100F, but never with the AC on. I have mainly been running in AC ON vs AUTO so I can control the fan speed - manual mentions fan speed is a factor in the auto idle stop logic.
Thanks.
I would also love to know how to make the AC stay on and have Auto Stop. I don't know if it's possible.
With the high temps, my car always does auto stop- and the fan might run to cool the engine while I'm in auto stop (not the AC fan, the fan under the hood- the one that stays on when you turn off your car).
To control the fan speed on AUTO all you have to do is set the degrees lower. You can use the AC a lot more efficiently by setting it at like 80 or 75 and when the fan slows down, turn it down another degree until it's where you want it. It wastes a lot less energy than setting it to 62 and trying to blast your car cool.
hansonclan:
No, the Climate Control does not have to be in Auto for the AC to be in electric. The criteria for running the AC on electric only is that the temperature differential between the climate control setting and the ambient has to be small enough for the climate control to stay off the (gas engine) belt driven half of the compressor. Essentially, the AC on the HCH-II is driven by electric and assisted by the gas engine whenever it needs to work harder. On its own, the electric AC compressor is only able to maintain temperatures or make rather small adjustments... so the strategy I described is one way to keep it "cooler" while minimizing the FE hit.
MY_MPG_55:
Unfortunately, the HCH-1 cannot run the AC on electric only as it does not have an electric scroll compressor as the one found on the HCH-II.
Cheers;
MSantos
Our Dealer can get us a white Civic Hybrid with navigation in a month. My question is does the navigation have backup camera in it like our Ridgline or is it an option?
Steven, that feature is not usually an option.
Some dealers (very few) will install it as an option and where that is not available, the owners of Navi equipped HCH's can opt to have it installed by an audio/video shop.
Cheers;
MSantos
Steven, the HCH Nav doesn't include a backup camera as on the CRV. The factory equipped, built-in-the-dash nav isn't generally included on the HCH but available as factory ordered. The dealers do have a tack-on nav unit for the Fit that can probably be added to the Civic, similar to what you might buy at Sam's Club, Costco, Wal-Mart, etc. You can check out a factory unit on a regular Civic. I was able to demo the factory nav on the regular Civic. The same unit goes in the HCH.
I'm anticipating ordering my HCH with nav. The dealer tells me it will probably be a 2009, so I'm waiting for any additional info on the 09's which info should be here something this month. Then I'll order. I'm hoping they'll add a Bluetooth link.
Can't wait!
Scott
My apologies - I misread the original comment on the camera. Clearly, you have more experience with the nav than I do. That's an interesting idea, tho, of adding the cam. Might look into that when I get mine.
The other add-in I'm curious about is the iPod link cable. It's not listed in the usual accessory list, but there are installation instructions for it in the listing of install PDFs on Honda's web site. I'm curious whether it would display track info on the nav screen and give remote control of the iPod from the steering wheel controls.
Scott
civic hybrid really the best car to replace your wife's old car.
try checking articles about hybrids at[&#@%!].com
it might help.
Hey MSantos do you anything about the HCH in regards to being able to take out the factory stereo and putting one in from the store like your own stereo do you know if it can be done and would it ruin any of the functions of the car
That's a very good question and I am afraid I am not able to give you a certifiable answer.
Informally however, I know of folks who have done just that. They've ordered a new dash cover (the Navi model dash cover) as part of a kit and they managed to install a standard issue audio system.
Except for the NAVI equipped models I do not see a BIG problem doing that except that the OEM audio unit allows the display of specific diagnostic info that the third party audio equipment may not be able to integrate and display in the same manner (if at all).
Cheers;
MSantos
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