jump-starting a hybrid vehicle?
Created January 5, 2005, at 2:08 pm by Anonymous
As I was loading groceries into the trunk of my '04 Honda Civic Hybrid, I saw the jumper cables I've had clunking around in the trunk for the past 8 months I've owned the car and wondered, "Do I even really need these?"
Has anybody ever had to jump-start their hybrid car? If the IMA motor is indeed the starter motor, and the IMA motor uses the 144 volt battery pack in the back (which is obviously not the batteries would use the jumper cables on -- yikes!), would the civic hybrid (or for that matter, other hybrids) ever need a jump-start?
If the 12V battery runs down completely for some reason (e.g., using a power inverter inside the car to power a laptop for too long), I am assuming that the IMA battery charges the 12V battery. Does anyone know more details about how the 12V battery gets charged?
Thanks,
Stephen Fenwick
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The IMA is used only down to a certain temperature. Below that temperature, the 12V battery is needed to start the car. The 12V battery is charged only when the engine is running, thus if it's very cold and you have a dead 12V battery, you will be unable to start your car.
Looked at the FEH in the parts catalogs at my Ford dealership today. They do not have an alternator shown, which implies that the 12v battery draws it's charge from the same "Generator" source as the electric motor battery.
There appears to be two radiators also - 1 for the engine and one for the transmission/electric motor assembly. It will be interesting to compare the Hybrid with a standard I4 gas engine Escape.
I'm sure the owner's manuals will cover jump starting procedures - I'll look at mine as soon as I get one.
Like the Prius, the Escape has two independent cooling systems for the gas and electric parts of the drivetrain. This is probably because electric things like to run cooler.
The 12volt battery in both vehicles is charged by the inverter, which is powered from the HV battery pack.
The Escape has a jump-starting system which may be unique. It's possible to pull enough energy from the 12v battery to recharge the HV battery such that it can start the engine. They claim the 12v battery is big enough to give you two chances at getting the engine started before you have to jump/recharge the 12v battery. This is a clever solution to the discharged HV battery problem.
On the Honda forums, usually the problem was a dead 12V battery in extremely cold weather, not a dead NIMH pack. It sounds like the starting criteria is different between Ford and Honda's design at the least.
Not entirely. The 12v battery has to have sufficient charge to turn on the computer in the Escape and Prius.
The difference is (and the reason the HV jumpstart system in the Escape is so interesting) is that it's easy to jump/charge a 12v battery but a little more challenging to jump/charge a 200v plus one...
I do emergency road service. It is very important that if you need a jumpstart, and call for roadside assistance, that they DO NOT use a portable power source "jump pac". This could, and has in the past, damaged components. Have them use jumper cables. This will put around 60-90 amps, as opposed to 750-1000 amps.
I currently have to jump start my 2003 hybrid civic every day. The batteries (both of them) die daily.
There is, to date, no explanation for this. The dealer has found nada. It started a month ago. Average temperatures this month and last have been in the 70's and 80's.
What components can be damaged? I take a portable charger with me everywhere now because I can't rely on my battery to start my car.
I am a very sad panda.
Stephanie,
There is no excuse for having to jump-start your hybrid. Car companies have been making electric starters for years and the hybrid is no different from any regular non-hybrid in this regard. Complain, complain loudly, complain often, to your dealer. If this doesn't work, start taking down names of who you talk with and ask to speak with their supervisors and follow up with their supervisors.
Stephanie,
I second and amen former EV-1 driver. Management at dealerships and for sure, regional manufacturers' reps are usually very much aware of non published flaws in their products.
Stephanie,
We have the same car HCH 2003. We have been jump starting it daily as of Sept 5th. We brought it in twice this week so far. After the first time, I didn't make it all the way home. Both times, the dealer tells me that I do not drive the car enough!!.
We had a new battery installed in June 06, the phase sensor control in July 06 and May 05.
Even though it is over 2 years since we bought the car, it was accepted for arbitration because our check engine light appeared a month after we bought it. We needed a new transmisson a few months after we bought it. And there was the 'recall' in summer 2005. We are now waiting to hear from the Lemon Law arbitrator.
If you had problem early on, check your state's Lemon Law. You may be eligible
Stephanie & Fran:
I just started having this same problem. I took it to my repair shop today and they say it is in the IMA so I have to take it to the dealer tomorrow. Have you come up with any solutions?
Stephanie & Fran:
Took the car to the dealer today. Before I took it in I did some research on the internet and learned that their may be a TSB for a problem with a relay that causes the battery to drain. Mentioned this to the service manager and he knew what I was talking about. They called back later in the day and diagnosed it as a bad AC relay. $20 part.
My 2003 HCH's IMA light came on. The next day it was dead in the driveway. AAA was able to jump start it. I drove it to the dealer. They checked it and said no problem. Same day I took it for its 60,000 mile checkup. It needed a new regular battery and front brakes. Next day (yesterday) the IMA light was on 1/2 the day. It was dead in the driveway this morning. I had it towed to the dealer. I didn't even ask to have it jump started. The dealer said the fan motor was stuck on and drained the battery. They are keeping it overnight to be sure. Would that make the IMA light stay on? They said yes.
Sigh,
If I might add a couple of comments(I'm not a Hybrid Owner)..generally speaking a 12volt Automobile Battery will have a LIFETime of 4-years..these batteries are charged at up to 18volts..and really contain a VOLTAGE of 13.6volts..larger-[ah]-AMPHOUR batteries give better results than a smaller one..the smallest AH on a 12volt Automobile Battery I have seen was about 25ah..I own a Wheel Chair Battery @12volts30ah..and a Electric Scooter that I just purchased uses a 24volt15ah..actually 2 X 12v.10ah..
..
There are TEST Equipment for the vehicles that I drove that will offer CHARGEING TEST Results..
..
General Battery Maintainance must not have really changed from the standard..keeping the battery Compartment Clean is first on the list..
I would use a Spray Paint on the Battery TERMINALS rather than some grease or chemical sponge device..
Its always important to LOOK/at the CONNECTIONS..and this is your START point to be a HOME MECHANIC..wires can be loose on their connections or worn in the insulation..and some electrical stuff can just be really cheap..the OPTION to UPGRADE PARTS is most likely in the BallGame of the HYBRID Vehicle..
..
I was in a AUTOZONE last week(my Scooter blew its rear tire)..here's a part that can't be repaired(the inner tube)..it must be replaced..
But while there I did NOT really notice any differance concerning the emerging GREEN-vehicle..I was a Auto-Parts Counter Person in the early 70's..and the AUTOZONE Store looked just the same..
..
I would consider the best practice to be Specifications..
and the ability to CHECK your Spec's on the vehicle..
Like the VOLTAGES...front and rear(it seems)...
Chargeing Rates and Battery TYPES....Ni-Mh...SLA...require special battery Charger's..SLA Batteries require the CHARGE to be maintained while a Ni-Mh Battery can just SIT for a BIT/waiting to be CHARGED..
..
The fact that GREEN-vehicles must use a Lighter engineering thought can be a disaster for adding on OPTIONS like TOWING..the chance to just BUST-a-BOLT..
..
I think if people return to basic transportation the GREEN-vehicle will survive it inter-action w/People..
But the attempt to Joy-up-The-Ride..<<<<-----back-sliding.
is there any special method to jump-starting these vehicles such as hidden switches. Please advise
-Hope this helps.
-We have an Escape hybrid, and are very happy with it. Several weeks ago we jumpstarted another car with the hybrid, but ONLY after reading the owner's manual VERY thoroughly (the procedure was slightly different for a non-hybrid). We have noticed no problems since then.
-So....read your owner's manual for sure!!!! In fact, read it out loud while you are connecting the cables (sounds silly, but pilots read off their checklists even if they have committed the procedures to memory long ago).
-You may also want to call the factory number to see if they have any updated information.
Hope this information helps you out..
Hybrid Hazards Co. has released a hybrid vehicle jump start towing guide which covers over 24 of the hybrid vehicles including the enova school bus.
They can be found online if you do a search for Hybrid Vehicle Jump Start Towing Guide
or click the homepage link...
They also released a Hybrid Vehicle High Voltage Quick Shut Down Guide for First Responders / fire / police / rescue.
Take care,
Just did it and it was like for a regular car. We used jumper cables to jump start a Honda Hybrid
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