Hybrid/Prius, where is the savings?
Created November 4, 2005, at 9:12 am by Anonymous
I commute 25,000 per year, and I drive a Honda that averages about 27 miles per gallon. My total fuel cost for the last 12 months was under $2200.
I have been reading all of the comments on the Prius, so I visited the dealership. I found one thing to be a deal killer: he said the batteries only last three years, and they cost almost $6000 to replace. So while I cut my fuel cost in half, perhaps to $1200, I must budget for an additional battery cost of $2000 per year, taking my total cost to $3200. That's $1000 more than I'm paying now.
Can the Prius owners please give me their real story?
From my perspective, I'm better off driving my non-hybrid Honda until someone figures out a better battery system.
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6 years ago
Keith, this is simply bogus information, probably from a dealer that doesn't want your business because they can't get enough Priuses.
Toyota says "Since the car went on sale in 2000, Toyota has not replaced a single battery for wear and tear." (http://www.toyota.com/about/environment/technology/2004/hybrid.html)
6 years ago
Additional information from the Toyota brochure.
Hybrid-Related Component Coverage: Hybrid-related components, including the HV battery, battery control module, hybrid control module and inverter with converter, are covered for 8 years/100,000 miles. The HV battery may have longer coverage under emissions warranty. Refer to applicable Owner’s Warranty Information booklet for details..
6 years ago
That is pretty suprising to hear the dealer spread that type of misinformation. Like has already been mentioned, the shortest warranty is 8 years/ 100K miles, with the warranty in CA being 10 years/150K miles. So no one is paying $6K every 3 years. I have heard of a couple being replaced because of abuse with about the price tag of 2-3K, some of which was covered by the dealer.
What most aren't aware of, is that the battery charge is kept within a very narrow range of chage (about 40%-80%) so that is never completely full or completely empty and can much much longer than conventional batteries. I am not an expert of batteries, though, this information was provided by others who are on PriusChat.com
6 years ago
Everyone, thank you for your replies. I think I'm going to dive headfirst into a Hybrid this coming week.
6 years ago
Why ara amaericans so in love with a car that acheives 60mpg? I have a VW Golf Tdi which returns 53mpg & certainly didnt cost me $20000+. It's 9 years old this year & is worth about £2500 (or $4400). Yes I'm in england. So why can't america get cars like this? I'd love to be more eco-friendly, but can't afford to be at these prices.
6 years ago
American's simply don't like diesels. I think they got a bad rap earlier, and then the auto industry pushed petrol-powered vehicles. We're beginning to come around a little. One of my friends wants a New Beetle, and I keep pushing for her to get a diesel.
6 years ago
I think most of the diesels we see in the US are nasty dirty monsters. For the most part they are huge vehicles. The TDI is the only diesel I considered prior to purchasing a hybrid. The mpg was great, but my personal feeling was that the improved emissions and comperable mileage of the hybrid far out weighed the cost savings of the TDI.
5 years ago
The 2006 Prius, has an 8 year 100kmiles warranty on the batteries, a 5 year, 60k miles warranty on the drive train and 3/36k on everything else. The feds are giving a $3120 tax credit on the Prius until the MFR slls 60k vehicles, then it drops to $1500 for two quarters, then to $750. Consumer Reports rates it highest in terms of reliability and satisfaction and value retention. The batteries cost, per Toyota, $3000 to replace. If people question the savings, do the math. Toyota has a savings calculator on their site. Fun to visit.
5 years ago
Have you read of the taxi driver Prius owner first generation who after putting 200,000 miles on it, Toyota gave him a new one so they could tear his apart since that was highest mileage they'd heard of. He still was using original battery. Unlike the hybrid battery, the small lead-acid battery for lights, horn, etc. in the trunk does need replacing like those in other cars.
5 years ago
I now have 2 prii. My first is a 2001 with about 180,000 miles and I am still consistantly getting about 46 to 47 MPG combined highway/city. Much of my mileage is at 65 miles per hour with cruise. While I have had to put in a new computer, my batteries have had no problems. This computer is the only problem I have had in that 180,000 miles. I have seen to it that I have all service work done at the 30,000 mile limit by Toyota. I use other places to do simple oil changes and I use 0-20 Moble One at about every 10,000 miles. This has becomes my wife's car as she only drives on weekends.
New car is a 2007 and I plan to maintain it as the 2001. Received at the end of Oct and already have about 8500 miles. Noticable mileage increase after first 5,000 miles. About 2 mpg. Also had oil change here as this is where much of the initial wear occurs. So mileage could be either one. I really like the 0-20 Moble 1 and purchase it at Walmart. :)
5 years ago
At this point I feel that any debate as to the possible savings of a hybrid are over (am writing an article on this, which I'll share with the community soon). When I first looked into hybrids back in 2002, I was presented with reports that said that, at best, it would take five years at least until you reached 'crossover point' - the point where what you save in gas exceeds the extra money you pay per month on the car. At the time I believed the reports and passed on the hybrid for four years.
Gas costs have since risen 200% and there is no reason whatsoever to believe that gas prices will not continue to rise AT LEAST 20% a year over the next five years - this assuming a relatively stable geopolitical climate, no major weather disasters in oil-producing regions, and continued double digit demand for oil in China and India. All of those "five-year plus" reports were based on stable gasoline costs over the ownership period. Factor in the volitile gas prices and the crossover point is more like 2 years.
IMHO, Now is the time to switch over.
5 years ago
Keith -- Your post has a long grey beard on it by now, but for anyone else reading this thread: just my opinion, but I NEVER rely on any one car salesman's view on anything! I ALWAYS get a second opinion, and then a third. Then I cross-check the info with current owners. Prius people tend to know far more about their vehicles that the average soul.
I've been buying cars and trucks for 35+ years and I've seen every scam imaginable. One of the most interesting attempts to rip me off came from the finance guys at a Toyota Dealer.
Now that the Prius is "on the lots" you can negotiate harder and push for more concessions. In my area, competitive dealers will even give you free lube/oil for the first year you own the car.
Important note: You DO NOT need buy the extended warranty when you close the deal. You can buy it at any time while the factory 36/36 is still in force. The 36/36 is a good warranty and I believe Toyota will stand behind it.
We love our '06 Prius. Hope you got the opportunity to enjoy one, too!
4 years ago
I really do think your on the right track! But a standard compact, much less $$$$wise to maintain, and ANY service garage will work on it (a standard car). I have read where the batteries can be purchased for some $3,000, but again, a VERY HIGH RISK component! A Toyota spokeperson said they have never had to replace these batteries, my question is if thats the case, why not supply a lifetime warranty on them and totally resolve customers concerns!
I have calculated the difference (only after my wife bought the Prius), between a "standard" compact, say a Corolla, and the Prius, in the long run I believe the standard vehicle will be much cheaper to operate, starting with the initial cost (roughly $16,000 vs. $24,000), lots of gas money there! And tires every 40,000 at about $300/set!
4 years ago
Beware of the 100,000 mile warranty on the battery pack. In order to save money with this car you have to drive it, Ours is two (2) years old +/-, and has over 60,000 on it. The good news is we saved money on fuel over these 60,000 miles, the bad news is very soon the batteries will be on me! I am scared! Just may try to sell the sucker before that (if you can sell a car like that used, high mileage). If Toyota wanted to allay battery fears!! Provide a "lifetime" warranty, heck, 100,000 mile warranty is nothing! (particularly if Toyota feels the batteries are that good)!
4 years ago
An expensive car to maintain, also tire wear is not that good and the original tires that come on the car will need replaced after 30,000 miles or so (depending on your driving conditions). The original tires are a very hard tire and this leads to the car wandering all over the road. Also a very harsh ride. They wear out rather quickly when compared to other more traditional cars, and when you do replace them with a decent tire your mileage goes down, as much as 5 or 10 MPG!
4 years ago
doogie,
30,000 miles a year? What do you do with that car? My wife and I don't put 30k a year on our cars combined. I maybe drive 12k a year and that would put me at 8 years plus to worry about the battery warranty. I'm not too worried as it's a toyota. I've had Nissan's prior to this and well over 100k with no problems but yes they weren't hybrids so that is different.
3 years ago
I blew through my factory tires in 38,000 miles. So I cruised down to Costco and I got one of their killer seasonal tire deals. A set of brand name tires (not Michelin though) with a 70,000 mile warranty for my '05 Prius. My warranty card and I will be waltzing in there a couple of times for sure.
3 years ago
Oh I just checked my math - one time. So no flames about my math okay?
3 years ago
More to think about....
Automatic transmisions on regular cars wear out/fail, to the tune of some thousands of dollars to fix at a pop. (Don't know average life of typical auto transmission, but I figure something like 150K to 200K miles) Prius has no automatic transmission. Potential savings here, perhaps.
Most folks/dealers reccommend flushing/changing automatic transmission fluid every 30K miles. To do it right, need to take to dealer/mechanic with special equipment necesary to ensure ALL the worn out fluid is removed in the process. This proceedure costs a bit as well...
Brake pads, rotors, drums also need occaisional replacing/service on all cars (incl. Prius). However Prius does most braking with electric motor/generators, with regular brakes used mostly at speeds below 10 mph. Can expect to save a bit here as well as 'brake jobs' need be done at much greater intervals.. (read a post someplace where a fellow could still see machining marks on rotors after 75K miles, and pads barely showing wear.)
Prius is a different sort of car, has a lot of 'high tech' feel to it that makes it fun to drive.
As far as gas goes Prius gets pretty good mileage without giving up 'creature comforts' that may be missing in other makes/models of cars that can get comparable mileage with 'standard technology'.
BTW: I have a relatively short commute. Even though I now own and drive a gas sipping Prius, that old moped (down in basement, dust covered, flat tires, broken tailight, etc...) I drove to school in the '70's is starting to look good to me. (I would be embarrased to go down the line draining gas pump hoses into the Peugeot's tiny tank like I occaisionally did when I was 'young'. Nowadays, however, a couple bucks worth of gas in that old moped would probably get me around town for most of a week.)
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