Hybrid Minivan US Availability?
Created March 17, 2005, at 10:47 am by Anonymous
Anyone know when we can expect the Honda or Toyota minivan to surface in the US. Also, do any of the big 3 have plans for a release soon?
Created March 17, 2005, at 10:47 am by Anonymous
Anyone know when we can expect the Honda or Toyota minivan to surface in the US. Also, do any of the big 3 have plans for a release soon?
News item: "Toyota Motor says it expects to export a 40-mile-per-gallon, hybrid-power minivan to the USA to join its Prius gas-electric hybrid sedan. That's about double the fuel economy of a gasoline-only U.S. minivan." - June 2001 (!)
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2001-06-15-toyota-minivan.htm
Oops
Now it's 2007 - see the article right here under "CARS" in the light blue box to the left.
I hope I'm wrong, but I recently had an email exchange with Toyota.jp and they said they had no plans to export the Hybrid Van (Estima) to the US for now.
I'm very happy with the performance of my 2001 Mazda MPV. However, I still would like a new minivan later this year. I would only buy a new minivan if it is a hybrid and 4 wheel drive.
I am very interested in this question. I read that the Estima was introduced in Japan in 2001. It was listed at 240 hp and is suppose to get about 40 mpg, though i don't know if that is average. The Estima here in the US is the Sienna and it's bigger - over 300 hp I believe.
How can we get the Estima, just as it is sold?
Is Honda considering a hybrid oddessy?
Who can we write to to urge production of a hybrid minivan? I"m sure they'd sell out in seconds. Either Toyota or Honda a missing the boat!
The technology works in a car why not in a minivan or pickup truck too? Why haven't any of the big auto companies done it? What are they waiting for?
GM & ford are waiting for toyota & honda to do it first....
it's part of their progressive management style.
see ya
steve
I've driven minivans since 1990 and own a 2004 Prius--and would buy a hybrid minivan today if one were available! (Need to seat 6 adults--the Highlander is too small).
I have to say that I am NOT at all impressed with the service I got on the phone trying to get the Toyota Canada guys to tell me when or how I could get a hybrid Sienna or even an imported Estima. They did not even know that it was available in Japan since 2001. They claim not to know of any plans to produce them here in North America and when I asked to talk to someone so I could complain they said that they would register the complaint but it would not likely get looked at seriously... Talk about ignorant. I then called back the Toyota US line and at least was able to register a request to have them consider marketing the minivan.
I would still buy one in a second if it were available....
This is an insanely frustrating experience and shows that people who claim "the market" will take care of everything are nuts! People are clamoring for efficient, low-polluting and somewhat roomy vehicles such as the Estima hybrid, and nothing is available!
The marketing people at Toyota are nuts. Most Camry buyers could use a Prius, but the Highlander is no alternative for the Sienna everyone should call 800-go-toyota (468-6982) requesting the Sienna hybrid (AWD 8 passenger) chances are they will wake up;-)
I am frustrated over the lack of vision of American automakers. Why don't they be the first at something and produce a hybrid van. I would buy one if I could get one. I don't see hybrids with big discounts to get them moving. Wake up GM!!
My wife and I recently (March-April, 2005) visit Japan as tourists and when we were in Tokyo we spotted an Estima minivan with a "hybrid" embossed chrome logo on the back. We stopped and talked to the business men standing near the van (who looked like corporate executives, judging from the quality of their suits).
At that time I had never heard of a hybrid mini-van, nor the Estima, but it was awesome. The gentleman told us it was a company car, it was full of executive luxury options (it had six independant lounger seats instead of any bench seats, and really large cup-holders and individual lights, cell phone charging plugs, and a shared video screen). It was amazing to look at and we wanted a more normal market one right away.
So far no one at our local Toyota dealer has been able to tell us much about our enquiry to "grey-market" import one for us, but they claim they are still researching it. It was a smidge smaller than the Siennas we see here in the states (eg: not useful for carrying 4x8' sheets of drywall/plywood), but plenty tall - I suspect the executive model we looked at may have been taller than a normal Estima, as it did not look normal.
I just want to add our voice to the clamoring for a hybrid minivan. All Toyota seems to be offering us in the US is the Highlander, which at 33mpg is not as fuel efficient as we want, plus doesn't have the seating we need (2 baby seats, plus older child, plus friends, plus cargo!). I will be calling the Toyota number listed earlier on this forum to register my demand for a hybrid minivan. Has anybody thought of a petition to Toyota? Since they are already producing these vehicles, it seems that with enough direct customer input they might be persuaded.
http://toyota.jp/Showroom/All_toyota_lineup/EstimaHybrid/index.html
Might be interesting to see this - even though it's all in Japanese.
I just called go toyota and the man I spoke with said that the hybrid mini-van will be released after the camry is released. The camry is set to release February 2006 and the mini-van has no release date but is in the line-up for right after the camry.
Did a google and found this article on Estima. Doesn't sound like it will be sold here anytime soon.
http://www.toyota.com/about/environment/technology/minivan.html
Add me to the list of those who would buy a hybrid minivan in a second if I could get my hands on one. The Highlander isn't what my family needs. What are they waiting for???
I followed up on the Estima link in Japanese and it showed the interworkings of this 4-wheel drive marvel.
http://toyota.jp/Showroom/All_toyota_lineup/EstimaHybrid/mechanism/index.html
The Estima uses a "parallel" hybrid gasoline engine with an electric motor/generator configuration to drive the front wheels and an electric motor to drive the rear wheels. If the electric motor and batteries were large enough, the van looks like it could be converted to a "plug-in" hybrid also. The plug-in gives you the option of charging the vehicle at night and running all-electric for the first 20 to 60 miles before switching to normal hybrid mode. The advatage of this is a 80-90% reduction in gasoline use.
Somebody tell TOYOTA that I'll put money down NOW for a hybrid minivan. I'm ready, when will they be?
The recent post about a hybrid that can run for short distances using an overnight electrical charge is very exciting. I can only hope that the delay in getting a hybrid Sienna on the market is related to adding features such as this and implementing the newest battery technologies.
A couple of folks here seem to think the Estima is the equivalent of the US Sienna. Actually the Estima is the vehicle sold overseas as the Previa but the new Previa (2000 onwards) was never sold in the US or Canada although it is available in lhd as it is sold in France. There are various engine and transmission options including a V6 and a diesel as well as the hybrid and 4wd is available on other engines, not just the hybrid's electric rear axle.
A few have escaped from their homeland (the hybrid has only ever been sold in Japan and hence is rhd only) and one was for sale in Jamaica recently.
Paul Norton - Toyota Estima Owners Club - http://www.estimaownersclub.com/community
For 2006 Honda will have an option for it's
V-6 (i-VTech) engines that employ "Variable Cylinder Technology" ie: shutting 3 of 6 cylinders off when cruising.
I have this on my '05 Accord Hybrid and only the
'economy' green light on the dash clues you to its operation!
Not a hybrid, but a help.
The iVTEC, which shuts down one bank of cylinders, ie, 3 out of 6 cylinders, is available beginning the redesigned (and already available) 2005 Odysseys. It is supposed to add 1mpg city and 3mpg highway.
couple more things. The iVTEC is only available on the top of the line Odyssey, so expect to pay some bucks for it.
also, a relevant article:
http://www.smartmoney.com/life/index.cfm?story=20050819-drive
Maybe this horrid increase in gas prices will push the market a bit more. I have been looking at minivans anyway, so I would trade my big a$$ SUV for a hybrid minivan NOW! I so regret getting it...sigh...
"Daihatsu Motor unveiled Monday a gasoline-electric version of its Hijet Cargo, touting it as the world's first hybrid minivan designed for commercial use."
http://www.mixedpower.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=759
The highlander shares an engine with the sienna some tech wiz should be able to tweak sienna into a hybrid with HH parts (or bribe you dealership service guy)
I am ready TODAY to trade in my wonderful Honday odyssey for a hybrid minivan...Toyota hurry up!
Our family, like so many of those noted above, is waiting for a quality hybrid van to be introduced here in Canada. We have a 1991 Corolla wagon -- and growing kids, and aging parents -- that we'd like to replace. Yet we also REFUSE to buy a newer high-polluting conventional van. Wake up, Toyota & Honda! How slow you are!
WANTED
hybrid minivan that comfortably seats 6-8
a/c, usb port, navigation
need asap
Add me to the list. Two adults, two kids, a dog and all my cargo would fit nicely in a new hybrid minivan. I told my wife that she could have the minivan when they came out with a hybrid. As much as I hate to admit it, I'd do it tomorrow if it were available.
Why don't the car companies get it? I've been waiting for over two years now hoping that someone will come out with a hybrid minivan. I refuse to buy anything until something becomes available. I URGE you to do the same--don't settle for less and don't purchase some behometh that gets crummy gas mileage, simply because it's easy to buy now rather than wait. If more of us wait, and simply don't buy, the pressure should be greater to come out with a hybrid minivan sooner.
I do hope that they will not use the hybrid function simply to boost power (yet again) and not strive for significantly greater fuel efficiency. Honda's Accord and the Toyota Highlander did this, and the additional MPG on each of these hybrids is not all that impressive. Automotive marketing and product development decisionmakers need to stop adhering to the outdated assumption that all Americans want the biggest, most powerful car that is possibly available.
It's not just about economics of better mileage (though this helps). It's about wanting to make a positive difference, personally, in my purchase decisions.
Craighton
Seattle
Why doesnt' the public get it. We've been crying for years for a hybrid minivan. Hell they have fuel cell technology thats ready and we wont see that when they say either.
Soaring gas prices wont drive the market to hybrid it will do the opposite.
I'm as frustrated as anyone else but the truth is, anything that will cut on oil and petroleum sales like a sienna hybrid (which will be 1 in 10 cars on the road after a few years) gets the rights bought out by the oil companies. Its collusion! And we are getting the bad end of the deal.
It doesn't matter how much we cry, the automakers develop and hype these products so they can get more money from the oil companies when they sell the design.
I'd love a hybrid minivan, but this high-tech wizardry isn't necessary to get better mileage. If they'd just offer a basic 4-cylinder engine, like on Accord and Camry, you'd jump 5-10 mpg. Within the past 15 years, automakers stopped offering four bangers, because power-hungry Americans weren't buying them.
>>If they'd just offer a basic 4-cylinder engine, like on Accord and Camry, you'd jump 5-10 mpg.
Good point. And that's why they have Diesel minivans in Europe... my cousin in France has one... I'll bet they get much better mpg...
Come on big three!!! Where is your common sense? There is a massive market waiting for you to come out with a hybrid minivan?
Whoever has been in email contact with Toyota - please send this entire list to them ASAP.
Ive been waiting for an Alphard since gas was 1.60/gallon.
MSRP is going to be 35k for the 1st people I'll bet - but competition will bring it down if the koreans and chinese bring their own out.
Jon March in Connecticut
Joining the list of those anxious for a hybrid mini-van! I practically live in my van. With four kids, I am constantly driving. With gas prices going up maybe car manufacturers will finally get a grip and give us Mini-van drivers a break.
Don't they realize that people who drive minivans spend a lot of time on the road and are also the future car buyers for the next generation as well!!
I just want a hybrid that will fit 6 people comfortably...
Me too. The only reason I'm holding back on the van for my family of 5 is because there is no hybrid van. I need a hybrid van even if I have to pay $10k more.
I see a whole lot of talk in this thread about how interested we all are in buying a hybrid mini-van, but what I see lacking is feedback from the automakers, especially Honda, who we know sells the Estima Hybrid internationally. Has anyone contacted Honda and gotten their reason for not selling them in the US? I am about to write Honda and will be sure to post the feedback I get. Honda is a very good company and there has to be a very solid reason they chose not to sell Hybrid in the US. Pure speculation here, but suspect they have done market research and it shows there is not enough interest, or possible the US Government is doing something to discourage import.
Anyway, I am done talking and am ready to take action!! I will be back with feedback !
I live in western Canada where the price of gas keeps creeping up.I will wait for the hybrid minivan, it is the only woth while purshase for my family of six.Its hard to wait when you know that the technology is out there,but not in your market place.
Toyota and Honda,one of you step up to the plate and set the standard for hybrid minivans.
i called that number, 800-go-toyota (468-6982), and got an add for a 900 pay number!
what's the deal?
I would buy one too, like many of you. I was actually ready for a hybrid minivan over a year ago ...
Technologically, there should be NO problem, as Toyota proved it with its hybrid minivans for year.
It is extremely strange that there is still NO such offering in North America. What are they hiding?
well, I put my $ where my mouth was, and I've bought an estima off the Japanese auction, should be here in NZ in about 4 weeks or so. Hope it goes :) I can't wait to play with it!
Harry machiela
Napier
NZ
Well just like the readers of this thread, I've read a lot about hybrids in the last month or two. Word is that hybrids make up about 2% of US sales, and most of the automakers (US and Japan) see the US hybrid market as a test market, so they aren't shipping many cars here. That keeps sales suppressed, making the condition cyclic.
Basically I think that we will be in this state until we and our neighbors all drive hybrids. The fools buying up HumV's are polluting the American marketing data. On my suburban street there are two HumV's and not a hybrid in sight.
Dan <11011011> - http://screamingmonkeys.blogspot.com
I would only buy one if it were a large minivan. Most minivans are too small for me. I drive a VW Eurovan. I'm looking forward to the 2007/2008 update for the Eurovan. The last year VW made vans was in 2003. I really have no options to purchase another van the same size as mine unless I go with a full size van, which to me have a commercial drive feel and a contractor look. Price isn't an option. If I could import the Alphard Hybrid then I would if I could keep the warranty, but that isn't an option. I believe BMW or Mercedes is coming out with a large minivan in 2007 or 08. I usually buy a new van every 3 years, usually VWs, but now I have no options. Toyota, Honda and the rest are too small and those that are bigger look like I just got off a job site. A hybrid van would be ideal. I spend entirely too much time at the pump. I don't mind paying for the gas, but it would be nice to not have to visit the pump so often. Personally, I don't really care about the environment, but I would pay about $10k more for a hybrid for the sake of having battery banks and not having to visit the pumps as often. I get around 17-21 mpg depending on where I am driving. Another issue, is I have no idea how safe my van is because the nhtsa nor the european organization has not tested the vehicle. That is another issue, but all the minivans are just too mini for me. So I couldn't buy this Sienna hybrid thing, but if you came out with that Toyota Alphard Hybrid even for $55k, then I'd get it in a heart beat. But they won't bring a van that expensive, nobody has, because vans are for soccer moms who are supposedly frugile. The MicroBus was going to be great, but they decided to not do that either. Nobody wants to take a risk in the auto industry when it comes to vans. To me they are all the same. I do like the Honda Odessey, but it is too small. The tire/wheel safety feature is nice. I have had some tire blow outs and it's scary. The cylinder shut off is neat, but I would prefer a hybrid specifically for the 110volt battery bank. The only van that looks remotely to mine is that new Dodge International with the mercedes engine, but I then look like a ups vehicle. I may end up going that route. I'm not sure I can deal with waiting for a new vehicle in 2008. I might be able to hold off for another year and a half, but I need a new van every few years. There's not much out there other than tiny minivans.
I work for a honda dealership. At this time there is no solid committment for a hybrid van however it is under consideration for 2008-2009.
Part of the reason you do not see more hybrid is because honda corp just doesn't make much money on them and they are still somewhat unproven for service history in any large numbers. After 5 years or so of service data I think they will have more of a comfort level.
I was interested by the September 07 post about the Sienna sharing an engine with the Highlander. Sounds like a business opportunity for someone to convert some Siennas. I'd pay for one, and I have a friend who would, too. I have similar thoughts as many other posts. I have 3 kids who are getting big, and I need to cart them around along with friends, gear, etc. There are just not good choices if you need a vehicle with a capacity of 7-8 people. If anyone can find someone who can do a convert, count me in!
Follow up on my Sept 28th posting (see above string) .....
I advised I was writitng Honda and Toyota about the precived demand for Hybrid Minivans. Got a call from Honda saying they have no plans, but thanks for writting, they will share my thoughts with those that should hear it within Honda.
I have not heard back from the Toyota folks
Larry, (Oct 12),
If Toyota's not answering thier phone, try email. Here's thier email form, and I usually get a reply. http://toyota.custhelp.com
Can't find the Honda email form. Could someone post?
Dan <11011011> - http://screamingmonkeys.blogspot.com
Dan (and others)
I finally heard back from Toyota. The guy that called me sounded like he was reading from a script - thanks...will make sure your suggestion is reviewed by management...other models are being added each year...blah blah blah. I asked him if they had received similar feedback from others and he could not tell me. I asked how far out Toyota plans new releases..again he could not tell me.
I actually wrote letters and faxed them to Honda and Toyota. The numbers are on their web sites
Ah, corporations. Didn't you see the movie? They're all psychopathic.
We need another "Tucker" on this one. A renegade with a vision.
I'm married with two small kids. We've already outgrown the '97 Volvo 850 wagon we drive, since every time we have to take another adult or child passenger along with us, we're compromising safety as well as comfort.
I'm desperately passionate about the cause of reducing fuel consumption... for years, North American car ads with their focus on "power" and "climbing mountains" have made me sick with frustration.
WOMEN AND SENSIBLE MEN DO BUY VEHICLES. I wish this message could get through to those who manufacture automobiles.
We're lucky to live in a city with decent walkability, bikeability, and public transport, but we do need to own a car.
I WANT A HYBRID MINIVAN THAT SEATS 6+, DAMNIT!!!! AND I DON'T CARE HOW "POWERFUL" IT IS! I JUST WANT IT TO GET ME FROM HERE TO THERE SAFELY!!!
LISTEN TO ME!!! I HAVE THE MONEY RIGHT HERE AND I AM NOT SPENDING IT! GIVE ME THE CAR I WANT TO BUY!!!!
Thank you for giving me an outlet.
I have been waiting for the Estima since 2001. In the meantime we purchased a Honda Civic sedan. Recently we rented a minivan to take a trip to the Black Hills, a fun experience for us and our two boys. That trip, however, convinced me I don't need a minivan, I can rent one for those few times that a minivan is necessary. (We only have two boys, if we had more children I'd definitely opt for the minivan.) So, we're planning on buying a Prius next year. But, I'm heartened by all of the comments here.
"The Hybrid dreamers, watch out".
The hybrid cars currently on the market cost from $3500 to $6000 more per car than comparable cars with conventional gas engines. This means that the amount of money you save, or don’t save, by buying a hybrid is very much dependent on gasoline prices. If gas is priced at $2.00 per gallon (we wish), it could take the average driver (15,000 miles per year) between 10 and 15 years to amortize the $3500 increase in the initial price. However, the higher gas prices go, the less time it takes to recoup the higher price tag.
FWIW: I emailed Toyota and got a response (pretty quickly, actually). The response was "We apologize, we do not currently have any plans to announce the introduction of a hybrid Sienna Minivan in the U.S. We are, however, aware of consumer interest, and consistently strive to remain competitive in today's market...."
They thanked me for my interest and documented it in the National Headquarters (I'm sure I know what that means).
Remesh,
thanks for your input, bu most people can figure out whether the economics of the hybrid work out for their particular situation. Unfortunately, folks like you and Consumer Reports propogate the myth that the hybrid drive train is not worth the cost based on the "average driver". You may want to look at the September Money Magazine article on the actual cost SAVINGS from driving hybrids and diesels. In addition, I would suspect most folks that chose to be hybrid drivers are not average or they do so for reasons other that pure economics. I do chose to drive a hybrid to save money. I drive over 25,000 miles per year, often 30,000. Also, the $3,500-6,000 you cite as additional cost is not entirely accurate when compared to comparably equipped models. Furthermore, when the federal AND state tax incentives are accounted for, there often is much less of a difference in cost. In Connecticut (where I live), they allow purchasers of hybrids to skip the state sales tax of 6%! That, along with the federal deductions/credits goes a long way toward covering the up-front cost difference.
I would also like a hybrid minivan, I am so tired of the horible gas milage my SUV gets and my kids are only getting bigger. I need more room. If they had a hybrid minivan on the market I would buy it tomorrow.
To the guy from NYC who needs a large van,
Your prayer is answer!
Mercedes is testing a PLUG-IN DIESEL HYBRID sprinter, I think that model comes inboth high top and reg top too.
Yeah...you guys love HEVs, check this out - whos pulling the wool now - maybe Toyota! IT IS REAL - check the Detroit News and free press!
Ad attacks Toyota's record
Environmental group questions efficiency
October 24, 2005
BY SARAH A. WEBSTER
FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER
"Is Toyota a wolf in sheep's clothing?"
That's what a stinging national ad campaign against Toyota Motor Corp., launched today by a San
Francisco-based environmental group, suggests. The ad is to run in Mother Jones online today and
be printed soon in full-page ads in the New York Times and other publications.
Created by the Bluewater Network, a nonprofit organization that fights for clean air and water,
the ads against Toyota are thought to be the first ever to attack a Japanese automaker on its
environmental record in the United States.
Bluewater says Toyota's hybrids aren't as efficient as their non-hybrid versions and questions why
the automaker is fighting tougher standards on fuel economy and emissions. They also note that
while Toyota's overall fuel economy is the best in the industry, it is worse than it was 20 years
ago, according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.
Toyota spokeswoman Nancy Hubbell said the automaker is disappointed by the campaign.
"Toyota is definitely the environmental leader, and we're extremely surprised," she said.
Bluewater is the same environmental group that launched a personal ad campaign against Ford Motor
Co. last year, portraying Ford Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Bill Ford as Pinocchio and
challenging the automaker's record on environmental issues.
Those ads, according to Bluewater, were largely a consequence of Ford portraying himself as an
environmentalist, making promises and not keeping them.
Now, Bluewater is taking on Toyota.
"We don't enjoy playing the truth squad," Danielle Fugere, director of climate change at
Bluewater, said. "But when the auto industry misleads the public, whether intentionally or not,
someone's got to set the record straight."
The ads against Toyota are likely to be heralded by Detroit automakers, which have been crying
foul for years now over Toyota's seemingly bulletproof image with consumers as the environmentally
friendly automaker.
Toyota makes one-third of the hybrid gasoline-electric vehicles sold in the United States and has
consequently benefited from Earth-friendly buzz -- even getting A-list celebrities to arrive at
the Academy Awards in hybrid Prius compact cars as an environmentally conscious fashion statement.
But Bluewater's ads, which were obtained by the Free Press last week, show Toyota CEO Katsuaki
Watanabe in the foreground and a man wearing a wolf head in the background. The ads list a series
of concerns about Toyota.
Foremost, the group questions why Toyota's newest hybrids don't get much better fuel economy than
their non-hybrid versions.
The hybrid version of the Highlander got only 20.6 miles per gallon in a week-long test drive this
year on a range of driving conditions by Free Press auto critic Mark Phelan. The EPA rating shows
the vehicle gets 33 m.p.g. city/28 m.p.g. highway in federal tests. The non-hybrid Highlander,
meanwhile, was rated 19 m.p.g. city/25 m.p.g. highway by the EPA -- much closer to the actual
results in the hybrid.
Other journalists have found similar results, Bluewater notes in its ad, calling the Highlander
and Lexus RX 400h "gas guzzlers with no better fuel economy than their non-hybrid versions."
"If this is the precedent for Toyota's future hybrids, that will be bad news for global warming
and our dependence on foreign oil," the ad says.
Hubbell of Toyota defended the company's hybrid vehicles, saying they are more efficient than
their gasoline counterparts. What's more, she said they are 80% cleaner in emissions.
Bluewater also asks why Toyota is working with other automakers to resist federal efforts to raise
national fuel mileage standards and suing to block California's proposed regulations to reduce
smog and greenhouse gas pollution.
Hubbell said Toyota is lobbying for regulations that are "rational and national," to avoid a
patchwork system of standards "that would be a nightmare" to comply with for manufacturers.
The ads also note that the average fuel mileage of Toyota vehicles is worse today than it was 20
years ago, according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's 2005 Fuel Economy Trends
report. In 2005, Toyota's fleet averaged 27.5 miles per gallon, the highest among manufacturers.
But the company performed better in 1985, with its fleet averaging 30.0 miles per gallon, the EPA
report shows.
While Toyota has a stable of fuel-efficient cars, including the hybrid Prius, it also makes the
Land Cruiser SUV (17 m.p.g. on the highway); Sequoia SUV (18 m.p.g.); 4Runner SUV (21 m.p.g.), and
Tundra Double Cab (18 m.p.g.). Those vehicles have helped lower Toyota's overall fuel economy.
"Toyota has a lot of explaining to do," Bluewater's ads say. "We thought Toyota cared about the
environment. ... Is this the same company that brought us the hybrid Prius, claiming to be an
environmental leader?"
The ads provide Toyota's telephone number and encourage consumers to call and ask Toyota to "build
more fuel-efficient cars and end Toyota's opposition to critical U.S. environmental policies."
Contact SARAH A. WEBSTER at 313-222-5394 or .
FEEL SHEEPISH NOW - WHOS LEADING THE BLIND!
before you go jumping off the bridge to "HEVs", read this..
Ad attacks Toyota's record
Environmental group questions efficiency
October 24, 2005
BY SARAH A. WEBSTER
FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER
"Is Toyota a wolf in sheep's clothing?"
That's what a stinging national ad campaign against Toyota Motor Corp., launched today by a San
Francisco-based environmental group, suggests. The ad is to run in Mother Jones online today and
be printed soon in full-page ads in the New York Times and other publications.
Created by the Bluewater Network, a nonprofit organization that fights for clean air and water,
the ads against Toyota are thought to be the first ever to attack a Japanese automaker on its
environmental record in the United States.
Bluewater says Toyota's hybrids aren't as efficient as their non-hybrid versions and questions why
the automaker is fighting tougher standards on fuel economy and emissions. They also note that
while Toyota's overall fuel economy is the best in the industry, it is worse than it was 20 years
ago, according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.
Toyota spokeswoman Nancy Hubbell said the automaker is disappointed by the campaign.
"Toyota is definitely the environmental leader, and we're extremely surprised," she said.
Bluewater is the same environmental group that launched a personal ad campaign against Ford Motor
Co. last year, portraying Ford Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Bill Ford as Pinocchio and
challenging the automaker's record on environmental issues.
Those ads, according to Bluewater, were largely a consequence of Ford portraying himself as an
environmentalist, making promises and not keeping them.
Now, Bluewater is taking on Toyota.
"We don't enjoy playing the truth squad," Danielle Fugere, director of climate change at
Bluewater, said. "But when the auto industry misleads the public, whether intentionally or not,
someone's got to set the record straight."
The ads against Toyota are likely to be heralded by Detroit automakers, which have been crying
foul for years now over Toyota's seemingly bulletproof image with consumers as the environmentally
friendly automaker.
Toyota makes one-third of the hybrid gasoline-electric vehicles sold in the United States and has
consequently benefited from Earth-friendly buzz -- even getting A-list celebrities to arrive at
the Academy Awards in hybrid Prius compact cars as an environmentally conscious fashion statement.
But Bluewater's ads, which were obtained by the Free Press last week, show Toyota CEO Katsuaki
Watanabe in the foreground and a man wearing a wolf head in the background. The ads list a series
of concerns about Toyota.
Foremost, the group questions why Toyota's newest hybrids don't get much better fuel economy than
their non-hybrid versions.
The hybrid version of the Highlander got only 20.6 miles per gallon in a week-long test drive this
year on a range of driving conditions by Free Press auto critic Mark Phelan. The EPA rating shows
the vehicle gets 33 m.p.g. city/28 m.p.g. highway in federal tests. The non-hybrid Highlander,
meanwhile, was rated 19 m.p.g. city/25 m.p.g. highway by the EPA -- much closer to the actual
results in the hybrid.
Other journalists have found similar results, Bluewater notes in its ad, calling the Highlander
and Lexus RX 400h "gas guzzlers with no better fuel economy than their non-hybrid versions."
"If this is the precedent for Toyota's future hybrids, that will be bad news for global warming
and our dependence on foreign oil," the ad says.
Hubbell of Toyota defended the company's hybrid vehicles, saying they are more efficient than
their gasoline counterparts. What's more, she said they are 80% cleaner in emissions.
Bluewater also asks why Toyota is working with other automakers to resist federal efforts to raise
national fuel mileage standards and suing to block California's proposed regulations to reduce
smog and greenhouse gas pollution.
Hubbell said Toyota is lobbying for regulations that are "rational and national," to avoid a
patchwork system of standards "that would be a nightmare" to comply with for manufacturers.
The ads also note that the average fuel mileage of Toyota vehicles is worse today than it was 20
years ago, according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's 2005 Fuel Economy Trends
report. In 2005, Toyota's fleet averaged 27.5 miles per gallon, the highest among manufacturers.
But the company performed better in 1985, with its fleet averaging 30.0 miles per gallon, the EPA
report shows.
While Toyota has a stable of fuel-efficient cars, including the hybrid Prius, it also makes the
Land Cruiser SUV (17 m.p.g. on the highway); Sequoia SUV (18 m.p.g.); 4Runner SUV (21 m.p.g.), and
Tundra Double Cab (18 m.p.g.). Those vehicles have helped lower Toyota's overall fuel economy.
"Toyota has a lot of explaining to do," Bluewater's ads say. "We thought Toyota cared about the
environment. ... Is this the same company that brought us the hybrid Prius, claiming to be an
environmental leader?"
The ads provide Toyota's telephone number and encourage consumers to call and ask Toyota to "build
more fuel-efficient cars and end Toyota's opposition to critical U.S. environmental policies."
Contact SARAH A. WEBSTER at 313-222-5394 or .
Dave, if you beleive this so called "expert" your in trouble. Lets face it, when it comes to SUV's, Toyota is no diffrent them anyone else - to move a big old ark of a vehicle is going to take a lot of gas and produce a lot of emmissions. This is what americans like, so Toyota would be foolish not to make SUV's. However, in all honesty this article is nothing more then a personal vendetta against Toyota for having the brains to ALSO make fuel efficiant vehicles. Ms Fix has an outlet for her views, and she is using that for her personal biased attack. If your going to attach anyone, attack the automakers that don't make Hybrids and are making little to no effort to save the environment.
Wow! talk about a biased article. I'm not opposed to slamming Toyota, in fact, I participated in a slap down when they started crushing the few RAV4EV's, however, this is total garbage.
They compare their 'week-long test drive' results of the Highlander Hybrid with the EPA for the non-hybrid but they don't look at how the non-hybrid Highlander compares with either it's EPA or a similiar 'week-long test drive'. They also slam Toyota's 2005 avg fuel economy with their 1985 economy without looking at any other manufacturer's similiar comparison.
I admit that the Highlander hybrid is built for power, more than economy but this is ridiculous. I wonder if their week-long test driver remembered to release the emergency brake. Must have been the same clod that did Consumer Reports' hybrid test drives.
There are clearly may other silly non-comparisons that I certainly hope people can see through.
Just to keep everyones hopes up. My google alerts have been going balistic over the Toyota Hybrid Minivan showcased in the Tokyo Motor Show.
Long link: http://car-reviews.automobile.com/news/toyota-at-tokyo-six-radical-new-concepts/1482/
Tiny Link: http://tinyurl.com/dbxy8
or just google "(sienna OR odessey OR minivan OR estima OR previa) hybrid"
Dan <11011011> http://ScreamingMonkeys.blogspot.com
Toyota has a survey online asking what kind of vehicle people want 'hybridized' next. Here's a chance to provide direct feedback to Toyota if you want a hybrid Sienna (or any other vehicle style for that matter).
http://www.toyota.com/hybridsynergyview/2005/fall/viewemail.html
Thanks for pointing me to the survey on Toyota's website. I voted. Like everyone else, I would buy a hybrid van in an instant. I have four kids and was down right upset to see the Highlander Hybrid. Is there really more market for that monster over a Sienna Hybrid? While I'm upset that there isn't a hybrid option out there, I'm glad that the Odessey has decent gas mileage with the VTEC engine and could possibly see myself going this route if there's nothing on the horizon with Toyota. My current van is 8 years old and won't last reliably for more that about three more years... I'll hold out as long as I can, though.
Thumbs down Toyota for not bringing the Estima hybrid to US markets. I would buy one today if one were available. Why do we have to wait for the "larger" less fuel efficient Sienna hybrid when they already have a proven hybrid minivan available in Japan? I have heard nothing but rave reviews of this vehicle and would love to at least have the opportunity to test drive one. Come on Toyota we all don’t need or want larger and more powerful cars. That’s just the American car companies making those decisions for me and I’m getting tired of the same old message.
The Japanese mini-van probably does not meet the crash requirements. Does it make sense not to re-invent the wheel unless the wheel doesn't work?
I'd buy a hybrid minivan today. In fact, I'm holding off on buying one for now just because I want a hybrid. I can't wait forever.
I, like many others, are putting off a new purchase of a minivan until a hybrid comes out. Even then I would buy in the second year of production so the bugs are worked out.
Have two Toyotas now, Avalon and Lexus RX300, with a little over 100K in miles, so I have another 100K of miles that I can wait till the hybrid minivans come out.
My mom was just in France and rented a VW Touran diesel seated eight people I think she said. if not eight than 7. I drive 2004 jetta tdi myself. I think a diesel minvan would sell well here.
Me too. Hybrid minivan right NOW. Any automakers listening??
I'm betting on the Seinna Hybrid in 2008! Toyota has prototypes of it's new hybrid synergy drive working. It's getting folded into thier hybrid models in 2008. I'd expect a LOT of Toyota/Lexus models to go Hybrid on this tansition.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10067373/
Works for me 2008/2009 is about when our Odyssey will be maxed out and it's note paid in full.
-Dan <11011011> http://ScreamingMonkeys.blogspot.com
> I think a diesel minvan would sell well here.
I agree. My cousin in France has a diesel minivan. It looked really nice. I think it would sell too.
I have just received my Estima Hybrid minivan in Napier, New Zealand, where I live. I had to import it privately from Japan, but no problems. Not sure yet if the fuel economy is as good as claimed, but I do live on a hill, so that ruins it a bit :)
Very very luxurious though, I'm loving learning to drive it too!
Good luck getting them in the USA ):
The reason they are not sold here is due to trade agreements and restrictions imposed by the US government. It would certainly outsell all us minivans and if you check recent news, Toyota, agreed to raise its price for all vehicles, to help US makers stay in business. What a sad state of affairs for US automakers.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8170340
What ever happend to the free market and market driven innovation?
Here is a good source of information about gas, diesel, or hybrids at UK's Vehicle Certification Agency:
http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/search/
This data can be sorted by: make/model/specification; fuel economy (Imperial/metric); and fuel type (petrol/diesel/LPG-CNG/petrol-hybrid).
Do not forget the UK uses Imperial Gallon @ approximately 1.2 gallons(US).
I can't wait to buy a hybrid minivan. Either Toyota or Honda will do. I am banking on one of them coming out with a hybrid minivan by the time our second kid is born in a couple of years. Rolling the dice... come on snake eyes!!!
I would buy a hybrid minivan today if it was available, our third child is on the way and I really wanted our next car to be a hybrid, but what will fit our needs?
TOYOTA SIENNA Minivan needs and wants:
Needs -
Toyota needs to configure the Highlander/Lexus RX400h/Camry hybrid system into the Sienna and retain the folding third row seat. Is this possible with current battery packs?
Toyota ABSOLUTELY needs to cure the " no spare tire " run-flat tire problem. As you know, consumers far and near lament purchasing the XLE LIMITED AWD version as the run-flat tires it comes with last 10-15,000 miles and cost twice what a standard tire does to replace!
Wants -
Drove a Highlander hybrid with all options recently - fantastic vehicle, too small for family guys' needs like mine. I noticed no keyless entry option such as the Prius', wherein the key remains in your pocket or purse and the door unlocks automatically. Also, the new Sienna should include a push button start, such as the Prius. The Highlander Hybrid has a standard key and ignition, and it is located awkwardly where you need to reach around the steering column such as in my Toyota truck.
A voice-activated nav system with XM capability and real-time traffic option is needed too, such as is available on the Honda Odyssey. A larger nav screen as in the Honda would be a smart ugrade as well. Bluetooth is available on today's Sienna nav package and the hand's free phone is a great addition. Tech that can voice operate the complex sound system and even the 3 zone climate control would be very smart. Anything that keeps your eyes on the road ahead and off the complicated switchgear, or your mobile phone will save lives.
More HP in the Hybrid Sienna will be a welcome improvement. The standard AWD Limited Sienna is noticeably more sluggish from a stop and up hills vs. the non AWD models.
Please step up the next gen hybrids wherein they can be plugged in and slow charged overnight to increase mileage greatly.Kits are available now to retrofit Priuses with this capability but they void Toyota's factory warranty
I nearly purchased the XLE Limited Sienna with all the bells and whistles in December. My wife and I decided we'll wait for the Sienna hybrid no matter how long it takes. It is a sacrifice since our kids' needs are increasing and a minivan is a must.Toyota is keeping it's release date more hush than the Colonel's secret recipe at KFC! - Marketing - Wouldn't you if you had tens of thousands of non - hybrid Siennas on the lot to sell?! We're not " tree huggers" but are not blind to global warming. Emissions improvements take a second seat to our main priority - too lesson our nation's need for fossil fuels ( 2/3 of the Earth's supply owned by countrys that consider us " infidels " not worthy of breathing ). Let's band together and do what we can to detach ourselves from these dependencies. Iran announced recently it's desire to jack up oil prices incredibly unless we allow them to build their nukes. Hydrogen technology is far off, and the plants it'll take to produce adequate hydrogen will be natural gas propelled, so the end result is not one as rosey as some have proclaimed. So far, the latest hybrid technology is the best we have to date.
I was wondering if maybe even Ford could be looking at a hybrid minivan - maybe it would revitalize their sales. Disappointed to read that they instead seem to be dropping out of the minivan market. Sounds like big, inefficient crossovers are now the big thing. http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/01/20/207977.html
They used to be innovative. I am not too old to remember.
Our Dodge caravan is getting old -- but we'll hang on to it until we can get something with better fuel economy. I see lots of frustration here with Toyota, but what about the Korean makers -- or any of the aggressive companies.
By the way -- I love my Honda Civic hybrid. If the fuel gauge is to be believed, I'm averaging 52 mpg after 3 years.
These auto makers are so not smart. WE WANT A HYBRID MINI-VAN!!! I love the Prius, but it's for old folks. C'mon boys, give it up for families! Who do you think wants to save money more; convertible owners or mommies?
I think that the choke-hold the oil companies have on the U.S. is pretty evident in the fact that there aren't more hybrids available. Put my family of 6 on the list of buyers as soon as a hybrid minivan comes out... If the US auto makers are listening... Use the Honda Odyssey for your role model! Now that's an awesome minivan!!!
I'm impressed...and somewhat bemused...by the posts on this link. Yes, a hybrid mini-van would be good, on some levels...but does it need all the "bells and whistles," as some have seemed to suggest? I.e., if a Preston Tucker-type did come out with a basic model hybrid minivan = roll-up windows, am-fm radio, no 'navigation' anything, and etc. = would everybody still be so quick to jump to the line? And if the Model T approach then followed - the same basic model for several years - would people still be as excited?
For what it's worth, my '91 Ford Aerostar, with 230,000 miles, still gets @25 mpg on the freeway. If we all kept our tires at the right inflation, changed the oil ourselves at semi-regular intervals, and, oh yes, drove at a constant 55 or 62 1/2 mph, we'd all save lots of $$ and gas, no matter what vehicle we drove. Sometimes it's the obvious things that we miss...
Peace to all.
It's obvious to me that there is demand for a hybrid minivan in the U.S. I look around at the vast numbers of Toyota Siennas and Honda Odysseys on the road, and minivans are appealing to families as a fuel-saving alternative to SUVs. We have enjoyed our 2 year old Honda Odyssey after driving SUVs and we're waiting anxiously for a hybrid now. I emailed Toyota and the response was that they "have no current plans to announce the introduction of a hybrid Sienna in the U.S." I hope that "no current plans to announce" means that it's on the drawing board and they don't want to tell us. I find that Toyota and Honda a very tight-lipped about their plans. I suppose if everyone knew there would be a hybrid Sienna, nobody would buy their current one! I think we're going to have to wait it out, folks!
Add me to the list of people who would buy a hybrid minivan today if it were available. I just traded in my X5 for the Rx400h and I am very impressed. The car drives like a dream and watching the consumption screen has changed my driving habits to driving slower, more coasting and smoothers starts and stops. I am tempted to buy another one to replace my 2002 Odyssey but I want AWD (in the NE) and hybrid and the space to load our bikes, dogs, and camping gear in the vehicle. No way i could fit all that in the 400h and it is too nice a car anyway for the dirty gear after a weekend of camping or sailing to be flung in the bag, not to mention a couple of wet dogs! A minivan is a different story. So I second all those clamouring for an AWD hybrid minivan. Great post James, your suggestions are spot on!
Another me too for this list.
Even though it may or may not make financial sense to buy a hybrid I want one so that I can do *something* to decrease our reliance on foreign oil.
if the vans arocking - don't come knocking !
A Hybrid or diesel minivan would be nice. i believe that there is a market for viechles that get better mpg.
and me to the list for a hybrid minvan--but it wont happen tomorrow sadly. I refuse to BUY anything from the BIG three. yeah, I know they WILL go bankrupt before I do and thats WHOSE fault? they had their chance 20 years ago before their collusion with BIG OIL.
they had their chance to do us all right and the environment and didnt, instead chose collusion with BIG OIL and politicos. they got their profits making BIG ol' SUVs for so long, you can stick a fork in it if Getty is right is right and gas hits 5 dollars a gallon.
does anyone see where this is going? we have all frustratedly waited for over a decade and still nothing has happened. Car companies have limped to the finish line with a crappy product and promises. Maybe the oil companies will buy the car companies, they fed the monster, now live with it forever.
Our family requirements are for a hybrid minivan with 4WD. Why can't Toyota or Honda deliver what the market wants? We've given up on Detroit. I just noted that a company called Energy Conversion Devices in Ohio has just announced in California that they have perfected the technology for a Hydrogen hydrate Prius that has a 200 mile range. You go the the hydrogen station and have this hydrogen powder put into your gas tank. The car uses electricity to heat a small poriton of it to convert it into hydrogen gas which is then burned in the engine. You have no bulky hydrogen tanks on the car.
I've looked through all these questions that people are asking, why not a hybrid minivan? I have long wondered this myself, why has the industry not realized the advantage of the so called "minivan" versus car, thruck and the other types of transportation that they offer. I've used nothing but a minivan for ten years and would consider nothing else. I can haul material in it if needed and it has good seating capacity, a car truck combination in my opinion. To have a hybrid minvan would be a BIG plus but I suppose that it will be offered by some other manufacturer other than our own. WHY???? Are our CEO's and his officers too busy counting their money to get involved with common sense? Are they more interested in selling oil along with our govenment? That's what it looks like from here. The "grant" monies offered for research are peanuts in respect to what we give to Haliburton in one day. NUTS.
I wonder if instead of (or until) a hybrid minivan, Toyota might consider following Honda's lead and put the cylinder shut-down technology that Honda has in the Odyssey. Drop from 6 to 3 cylinders when not needed (like cruising on the hwy). Does anyone have that level trim Odyssey that they can talk to re: it's mileage?
I am waiting for the hybrid minivan, too. I don't need a big one. The size of 98 sienna is good for us. So, if possible, I would like to import the current Japanese version of 4wd hypbrid. Am I allow to import one? My 98 sienna has almost 100,000 miles on it. It is still running like new. The engine and transmission are smooth and quiet like new. The gas-milage is around 17 mile per gallon mostly city drive (22-26 when new). But we need a all wheel minivan!!! I am attracted to the FJ Crusier. However, the gas milage is poor on a SUV in general to begin with... then, it gets worse later.
If any way, I could import one hybrid minivan with all wheel drive from Japan?
I just spoke with Carson Toyota rep whose webpage speaks about the Estima and another possible Toyota hybrid minivan - she says they are smaller than the Sienna, and don't have much power -- they are not planning on release of a hybrid minivan any time soon - several years away still. I am on the verge of getting the 4wd hybrid highlander w/ 3rd row seating, but it is in no way as comfortable as a minivan - getting in the 3rd row seat is very awkward.
I think the auto industry is way behind the ball on this. All the parents with young families I know want a hybrid minivan.
I have to agree with a previous commenter that part of the problem is America's lust for power, as it were. I just don't really need 250+hp in my minivan. I don't need a minivan that sprints from 0-60 in 8 seconds (this is what my 1993 MR2 Turbo - which still gets an avg of 25mpg - is for). Maybe one day, I'll be hauling around 6 200lb men and pining for more power, but until that day, I'd be just as content to drive a less powerful, more fuel efficient minivan. If it's a hybrid that pollutes less, all the better.
Hybrid minivans have "fleet sales" written all over them. Can you imagine the fuel savings in NYC rush hour traffic?
You can order directly from japan
The Toyota Alphard Hybrid Van:
http://www.batfa.com/new_car_toyota_alphard_hybrid.htm
It is right hand drive though.
Can someone tell me where this website gets the information in the "Cars" section? I have googled as well as searched the Toyota website and see absolutely nothing about a Sienna hybrid in the works. Only on this site.
Our Honda Accord is 8 years old - I figure if I start planning now, PERHAP we can afford one in 2 years.
I'm not into car payments, and can't for the life of me figure out who is able to afford cars approaching 40K! But I figure as every year passes, fuel will only be going up.
Anyway, about the Sienna - where is that info coming from?
We need a minivan now. (Three growing kids and the backseat of the Explorer is getting small.) We've decided we are going to lease an Odessy or Quest hoping that by the time the lease ends there will be a hybrid minivan on the market. With gasoline quickly approaching $3 per gallon its making more and more sense.
Too bad the short sighted Detroit automakers and D.C. politicians still don't realize (or are so slow in realizing) that a Hummer or Suburban isn't the answer for the average American family.
2006 and no hybrid minivan insight!
I have a two cars from the early 90s and desperately want a hybrid minivan for my growing family. I put 100 miles on my car every day!
Willing to wait for a hybrid minivan and let my two existing cars fall apart on the road. Hope its soon...
I am a single guy, not one to buy a mini-van or a hybrid, for that matter. I am just a car enthusiat and I check-out cars for fun.
For work, I spent most of my time in Asia between Japan, Singapore, Thailand, and Hong Kong. In As